Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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15-05-2015, 01:31 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(14-05-2015 10:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:01 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The OT quotations are cited by NT authors when explaining salvation.

My point is that anyone who says all Jewish people are somehow better than Gentiles or receiving salvation de facto are incorrect. Jews and Gentiles alike need to trust Christ:

Are you going to Heaven?

Why?

Are you perfect?

No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we? For which there is only one solution.

**********

Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment.

He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.

There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven."

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

**********

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus. Does this match your understanding? Why or why not?

Was Rabbi saying that Jews are better? If so then I also disagree. As for second part, sure you could believe that but I do not feel the need to trust some historical character turned into son of god.

No, nothing points that I go to heaven as afterlife is fairy tale for those who can't accept that death is the end. And I'm certainly not perfect, but we dont't have any problem, or at least I don't have. You may have some problem, but I don't care about this. You may also think that there is only one solution to your problem, but again I don't care.

Jesus Christ - if that's was his real name - did nothing for us, or to be specific did nothing for me. I see sin as religious concept without bearing on my life, and I do not care for supposed punishment for supposed sins by some imaginary god. So in short, guy named Jesus died or was killed for, well who really know, but I'm not indcotrinated into belief that he died for my sins.

He died on the cross? Maybe. He died for our sins and rose from the dead. It's indoctrination speaking.

And yes, god so love humans than he can not forgive them, he have to torture his supposed son. Make sense Wink

"Trusting" in the capability of driver do do his job is not the same as believing in some fairy tale.

As for talking to god - I would ask if he slept well during the Shoah.

My understanding is such that entire Bible is nothing better and more credible than Edda for example. Discussion between us is entirely devoid of sense as I see religion as rubbish, designed to take advantage of others, and Bible as bloody and only somewhat interesting collection of tales about myth and morals of some ancient dudes. Your view obviously is entirelly different, and it's fine with me considering that your beliefs don't have influence on my life. But I'm not interested in hearing about god love for us, Jesus dying for our sins or some such.

Etymologically speaking, the word sin comes from the Bible and means in the NT, "imperfection". It certainly sounds like you find the Shoah to be "bad" or "evil" or "imperfection". From my standpoint as a Bible believer, you believe in sin.

As for evil itself, I like what William Lane Craig wrote:

As the Christian sees things, God does not stand idly by, coolly observing the suffering of His creatures. He enters into and shares our suffering. He endures the anguish of seeing his son, the second person of the Trinity, consigned to the bitterly cruel and shameful death of the cross. Christ was prepared to endure the agonies of hell itself... in order to overcome sin, and death, and the evils that afflict our world, and to confer on us a life more glorious that we can imagine. He was prepared to suffer on our behalf, to accept suffering of which we can form no conception.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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15-05-2015, 01:33 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(14-05-2015 10:34 AM)Leo Wrote:  Jesus don't die on the cross anyways. 3 hours on the cross isn't enough to kill a young like Jesus. Even Pilate was surprised Jesus " died " so fast. Real cruxifictions lasted several days.

You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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15-05-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Was Rabbi saying that Jews are better? If so then I also disagree. As for second part, sure you could believe that but I do not feel the need to trust some historical character turned into son of god.

No, nothing points that I go to heaven as afterlife is fairy tale for those who can't accept that death is the end. And I'm certainly not perfect, but we dont't have any problem, or at least I don't have. You may have some problem, but I don't care about this. You may also think that there is only one solution to your problem, but again I don't care.

Jesus Christ - if that's was his real name - did nothing for us, or to be specific did nothing for me. I see sin as religious concept without bearing on my life, and I do not care for supposed punishment for supposed sins by some imaginary god. So in short, guy named Jesus died or was killed for, well who really know, but I'm not indcotrinated into belief that he died for my sins.

He died on the cross? Maybe. He died for our sins and rose from the dead. It's indoctrination speaking.

And yes, god so love humans than he can not forgive them, he have to torture his supposed son. Make sense Wink

"Trusting" in the capability of driver do do his job is not the same as believing in some fairy tale.

As for talking to god - I would ask if he slept well during the Shoah.

My understanding is such that entire Bible is nothing better and more credible than Edda for example. Discussion between us is entirely devoid of sense as I see religion as rubbish, designed to take advantage of others, and Bible as bloody and only somewhat interesting collection of tales about myth and morals of some ancient dudes. Your view obviously is entirelly different, and it's fine with me considering that your beliefs don't have influence on my life. But I'm not interested in hearing about god love for us, Jesus dying for our sins or some such.

Etymologically speaking, the word sin comes from the Bible and means in the NT, "imperfection". It certainly sounds like you find the Shoah to be "bad" or "evil" or "imperfection". From my standpoint as a Bible believer, you believe in sin.

As for evil itself, I like what William Lane Craig wrote:

As the Christian sees things, God does not stand idly by, coolly observing the suffering of His creatures. He enters into and shares our suffering. He endures the anguish of seeing his son, the second person of the Trinity, consigned to the bitterly cruel and shameful death of the cross. Christ was prepared to endure the agonies of hell itself... in order to overcome sin, and death, and the evils that afflict our world, and to confer on us a life more glorious that we can imagine. He was prepared to suffer on our behalf, to accept suffering of which we can form no conception.

You wrote: "God does not stand idly by, coolly observing the suffering of His creatures." Are we reading the same Bible?
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15-05-2015, 01:34 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(14-05-2015 11:27 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:01 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The OT quotations are cited by NT authors when explaining salvation.

My point is that anyone who says all Jewish people are somehow better than Gentiles or receiving salvation de facto are incorrect. Jews and Gentiles alike need to trust Christ:

Are you going to Heaven?

Why?

Are you perfect?

No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we? For which there is only one solution.

**********

Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment.

He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.

There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven."

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

**********

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus. Does this match your understanding? Why or why not?

Prove the existence of heaven.

Prove the Incarnation and Atonement concept is anything but a philosophical musing. Perhaps if we drink unicorn piss we will wake up in heaven the next morning....sounds as logical as pretending to mind meld with a mythical zombie savior after pretending to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, thus telepathically accepting him as our savior and believing he voluntarily died on the cross to wash away our eternal sin because eve ate an apple...an action that the mythical abrahamic faith based Judaea Christian god being uber powerful and Omni present knew would occur before he planted the fucking tree, so he is at fault for this whole BS eternal sin concept, perhaps he is an attention whore and created all of this to be able to force his creations into abject subjugation and worship. Very child like and ego-centric for a world and life creator.

Who trusts in Christ? You do realize as I have pointed out over and over he is just one of a series of hero-god concepts, from Osiris down to Romulus, to Jesus etc...

Place your trust in the great pumpkin, quickly or spend eternity in the oven without whipped cream.

I be delighted to prove certain things, and I'd likely use prophecy fulfilled not only in the NT but in the modern era to do so, but first, perhaps you can prove to me how you know that naturalism/atheism is truth. Share with me your proof for naturalism, please? Without that, your rejection of miracles is circular in nature.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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15-05-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 11:27 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Prove the existence of heaven.

Prove the Incarnation and Atonement concept is anything but a philosophical musing. Perhaps if we drink unicorn piss we will wake up in heaven the next morning....sounds as logical as pretending to mind meld with a mythical zombie savior after pretending to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood, thus telepathically accepting him as our savior and believing he voluntarily died on the cross to wash away our eternal sin because eve ate an apple...an action that the mythical abrahamic faith based Judaea Christian god being uber powerful and Omni present knew would occur before he planted the fucking tree, so he is at fault for this whole BS eternal sin concept, perhaps he is an attention whore and created all of this to be able to force his creations into abject subjugation and worship. Very child like and ego-centric for a world and life creator.

Who trusts in Christ? You do realize as I have pointed out over and over he is just one of a series of hero-god concepts, from Osiris down to Romulus, to Jesus etc...

Place your trust in the great pumpkin, quickly or spend eternity in the oven without whipped cream.

I be delighted to prove certain things, and I'd likely use prophecy fulfilled not only in the NT but in the modern era to do so, but first, perhaps you can prove to me how you know that naturalism/atheism is truth. Share with me your proof for naturalism, please? Without that, your rejection of miracles is circular in nature.

Naturalism is supported by the evidence. The universe works on the natural principles that science has uncovered with no evidence of any supernatural or magical influences.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2015, 02:54 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 02:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  Naturalism is supported by the evidence. The universe works on the natural principles that science has uncovered with no evidence of any supernatural or magical influences.

Nice try....

Science and evidence....those are clearly works of the devil. Big Grin

Just remember, God and Satan are playing a game where God lets Satan fuck with us to try to get us to be reasonable. That way God can reward the crazies who will believe wild, far-out fairytales, with eternal heaven, while all reasonable and rational people are sent hell where they belong.
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15-05-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 02:54 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 02:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  Naturalism is supported by the evidence. The universe works on the natural principles that science has uncovered with no evidence of any supernatural or magical influences.

Nice try....

Science and evidence....those are clearly works of the devil. Big Grin

Just remember, God and Satan are playing a game where God lets Satan fuck with us to try to get us to be reasonable. That way God can reward the crazies who will believe wild, far-out fairytales, with eternal heaven, while all reasonable and rational people are sent hell where they belong.

Science and evidence...what's that? Hobo
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15-05-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:34 AM)Leo Wrote:  Jesus don't die on the cross anyways. 3 hours on the cross isn't enough to kill a young like Jesus. Even Pilate was surprised Jesus " died " so fast. Real cruxifictions lasted several days.

You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

You mean by forcing the will of a Roman soldier to pig stick him in the liver to accelerate his demise? Pretty sure the Roman was just showing him mercy.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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15-05-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 03:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

You mean by forcing the will of a Roman soldier to pig stick him in the liver to accelerate his demise? Pretty sure the Roman was just showing him mercy.

I think he stuck him after he was dead. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2015, 05:37 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

'Course that giving up part happened after asking why god had forsaken him.

Or so the fairy tale goes.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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