Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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15-05-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, ...

That's not a particularly impressive or even noteworthy accomplishment. Happens all the time.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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15-05-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Was Rabbi saying that Jews are better? If so then I also disagree. As for second part, sure you could believe that but I do not feel the need to trust some historical character turned into son of god.

No, nothing points that I go to heaven as afterlife is fairy tale for those who can't accept that death is the end. And I'm certainly not perfect, but we dont't have any problem, or at least I don't have. You may have some problem, but I don't care about this. You may also think that there is only one solution to your problem, but again I don't care.

Jesus Christ - if that's was his real name - did nothing for us, or to be specific did nothing for me. I see sin as religious concept without bearing on my life, and I do not care for supposed punishment for supposed sins by some imaginary god. So in short, guy named Jesus died or was killed for, well who really know, but I'm not indcotrinated into belief that he died for my sins.

He died on the cross? Maybe. He died for our sins and rose from the dead. It's indoctrination speaking.

And yes, god so love humans than he can not forgive them, he have to torture his supposed son. Make sense Wink

"Trusting" in the capability of driver do do his job is not the same as believing in some fairy tale.

As for talking to god - I would ask if he slept well during the Shoah.

My understanding is such that entire Bible is nothing better and more credible than Edda for example. Discussion between us is entirely devoid of sense as I see religion as rubbish, designed to take advantage of others, and Bible as bloody and only somewhat interesting collection of tales about myth and morals of some ancient dudes. Your view obviously is entirelly different, and it's fine with me considering that your beliefs don't have influence on my life. But I'm not interested in hearing about god love for us, Jesus dying for our sins or some such.

Etymologically speaking, the word sin comes from the Bible and means in the NT, "imperfection". It certainly sounds like you find the Shoah to be "bad" or "evil" or "imperfection". From my standpoint as a Bible believer, you believe in sin.

As for evil itself, I like what William Lane Craig wrote:

As the Christian sees things, God does not stand idly by, coolly observing the suffering of His creatures. He enters into and shares our suffering. He endures the anguish of seeing his son, the second person of the Trinity, consigned to the bitterly cruel and shameful death of the cross. Christ was prepared to endure the agonies of hell itself... in order to overcome sin, and death, and the evils that afflict our world, and to confer on us a life more glorious that we can imagine. He was prepared to suffer on our behalf, to accept suffering of which we can form no conception.

From my standpoint sin is idiotic concept as it's offence to imaginary tyrant and/or harm done to real person, i.e. sin is not going to church and harming others. But sure Shoah certainly is bad, though calling it sin doesen't change anything.

As for William Lane Craig it's bullshit. One who is indoctrinated may believe such nonsense but to any sensible person Shoah is definite proof of benevolent god being nothing more than fairy tale.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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15-05-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 05:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, ...

That's not a particularly impressive or even noteworthy accomplishment. Happens all the time.

Well, with being human and all he didn't need to will his own end. It was gonna happen eventually.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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15-05-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 05:56 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  From my standpoint sin is idiotic concept as it's offence to imaginary tyrant and/or harm done to real person, ...

This is why we have tort law. And it is far more compelling than sin. I mean like immediately financially compelling.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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16-05-2015, 12:57 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
Q, do you not get tired of being made to look a fool here almost daily?

As has been asked of you since your arrival, fork over some evidence or shut your penis sheath.
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16-05-2015, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2015 03:51 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:34 AM)Leo Wrote:  Jesus don't die on the cross anyways. 3 hours on the cross isn't enough to kill a young like Jesus. Even Pilate was surprised Jesus " died " so fast. Real cruxifictions lasted several days.

You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

Jeebus Q, you really are a masochist, aren't you! I got to admire your balls. You've been so comprehensively intellectually squashed, yet you still keep coming back. I'm actually glad you keep coming back... it reminds me how stupid and tasteless the average Christian is, and therefore why I need to do what I do. Have you by any chance got any Christian mates you can send over here? Anyone who thinks they need to save some souls? I could use the sparring practice.

Jesus never willed his own end. He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and claimed he was a king. He took on the Romans in a fight and he lost. The Romans then made up stories about him so as to heap shit on him and everything he represented.... And that's what you are reading in the gospels.

The Roman soldiers quite obviously never thought the political trouble causer was the son of God. That was an idea invented by the over imaginative Paul, who only appeared on the scene 20 years later. The Roman soldier was just doing his job. He was probably thinking about what he was going to have for dinner, not the status of the grubby little Jewish boy.
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16-05-2015, 02:01 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 05:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His buying icecream from the store, ...

That's not a particularly impressive or even noteworthy accomplishment. Happens all the time.

I corrected Q's post Smartass

seriously nothing these theists say makes their book any more valid or relevant, just the opposite
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16-05-2015, 02:06 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
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16-05-2015, 09:53 PM (This post was last modified: 17-05-2015 10:23 AM by Leo.)
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 01:33 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 10:34 AM)Leo Wrote:  Jesus don't die on the cross anyways. 3 hours on the cross isn't enough to kill a young like Jesus. Even Pilate was surprised Jesus " died " so fast. Real cruxifictions lasted several days.

You might not have heard, but the Bible tells that Jesus willed His own end, and that when a Roman soldier nearby saw the manner of His death, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit" he said, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

Seriously I don't buy Jesus death on the cross after only 3 hours. Jesus was a healthy young man in his prime. Jesus legs weren't broken (unlike the other crossmates). Jesus was tortured before the crucifixion. Pilate ordered the Jesus flogging according to the story. Pilate was aware of Jesus condition before the crucifixion but even with this in mind, Pilate don't expected Jesus to die that fast. According to the story Jesus was pierced by a spear but we don't know how profound the wound was. The idea of crucifixion is about the victim suffering a very slowwwww death agonizing for many hours and sometimes several days. Jesus was " buried by a rich man" in a new tomb ( never been used ) close to the Calvary. This part of the story is at odds with the roman crucifixion tradition. I think is very odd that the crucifixion was in the eve of Passover and the day before the sabbath. The crucifixion was set in way that Jesus can't be on the cross after 7 pm or sunset ( sunset in jerusalem at April begins at 7:00pm or 19:00 hours). Jesus was crucified about noon , " died " about 3pm. Jesus probably was taken down from the cross at about 5:00pm. His body was placed in the tomb sometime before 7:00pm probably about 6:00pm. Crucifixion victims were usually hung on the cross until decomposition. Anyway Jesus death after only 3 hours on the cross is very unlikely. Being crucified don't necessary means death. Some victims in the roman times survived the crucifixion because they were taken down from the cross in time. Any victim of cruxifiction taken down from the cross in time with medical assistance can survived the crucifixion. Josephus documented some people surviving their crucifixions. Josephus himself tried to save 3 crucifixion victims. 2 of them died and 1 victim was SAVED.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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18-05-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Proof Moses was not instructed by God.
(15-05-2015 02:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2015 01:34 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I be delighted to prove certain things, and I'd likely use prophecy fulfilled not only in the NT but in the modern era to do so, but first, perhaps you can prove to me how you know that naturalism/atheism is truth. Share with me your proof for naturalism, please? Without that, your rejection of miracles is circular in nature.

Naturalism is supported by the evidence. The universe works on the natural principles that science has uncovered with no evidence of any supernatural or magical influences.

Please correct me if I'm wrong:

supernatural - (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Are you saying science has taken care of all these sorts of things? Because I can't think of a science that doesn't contain these sorts of things, whether there are things currently "beyond scientific understanding" or oddly anomalous.

That goes beside the obvious, that the Bible I adhere to provides multiple apologetics explaining why God is bigger than a test tube.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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