Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
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17-09-2015, 08:43 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 08:35 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  I'm a newbie to forums and etiquette. I just say what I'm thinking. It seems to be the place to do it. Evidently.

To that point, I apologise for 'taking a dump' in your house. I meant no harm. I came seeking information. Genuinely.

I asked the questions in the beginning and got treated like a dickhead. Intelligence is indeed gifted, or not. Evidently you have taken the scenic route on an otherwise simple conversation.

I came here wanting to know about the beliefs of individuals. An instead of being present from the beginning of the thread, some of you have given half cocked responses.

Chas, you my friend, I pray for you to the Creator of existence: May you have knowledge revealed to you that challenges everything you know.

And to the eloquently ignorant slowminded, mate you just need to chill the fuck out and realise when someone is just trying to say hi to a stranger to remove the stranger factor.

If that doesn't make sense to you - may you find only your hearts true desires. Amen.
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17-09-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 08:13 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 07:27 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  Can you see their mental images that they experience? Or the emotions they feel experiencing it? Mind you I've said 'see' not appreciate.

Not to crash hot with what the images of an MRI show... but am pretty sure those in the know have seen LOTS of really interesting things when it comes to how the neurons in the brain do their thing.

Now, going out on a bit of a limb, but I am kind of certain that the clever folks actually have seen new thoughts coming into being as they've watched the neurons of a scanned person's brain make the neural network that is a 'memory' form.

Am sure the cleverer people on the forums can maybe offer a link even?

So, short answer would be 'Yes', then. Smile

Can you the see, the nanosecond a person falls asleep if recorded?
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17-09-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 08:45 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 08:13 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Not to crash hot with what the images of an MRI show... but am pretty sure those in the know have seen LOTS of really interesting things when it comes to how the neurons in the brain do their thing.

Now, going out on a bit of a limb, but I am kind of certain that the clever folks actually have seen new thoughts coming into being as they've watched the neurons of a scanned person's brain make the neural network that is a 'memory' form.

Am sure the cleverer people on the forums can maybe offer a link even?

So, short answer would be 'Yes', then. Smile

Can you the see, the nanosecond a person falls asleep if recorded?

can you prove you have a brain in your head? Prove the reality of the science behind what you are presented with in a scan. Prove it's inside your head. Have you directly seen your own brain? You personally...
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17-09-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 08:32 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 08:21 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Mo said (allegedly) that everything was at the will of allah hence a deterministic faith evolved ... hence all the raping and killing ('cos y'know, allahu akbar etc.).

Can you elaborate? That's a very sharp statement from one with any knowledge. Do you have sources? Are they verified? Are existential proofs, available today, refutable? If so, how?

54.49 All things have been created after fixed decree.

9.51 By no means can anything befall us but what god has destined for us.

14.4 god misleads who he will and whom he will he guides

18. 101 The infidels [that's me btw] whose eyes were veiled from my warning and had no power to hear.

57.22 No disaster occurs on earth or accident in yourselves which was not already recorded in the book before we created them.

So, yup, you and I both have no freewill.

Believe it if you like. I reject those claims.

And that's where we differ.

Anytime. No need to thank me.

Big Grin

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17-09-2015, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2015 09:40 AM by ahp2015.)
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 08:55 AM)DLJ Wrote:  54.49 All things have been created after fixed decree.

9.51 By no means can anything befall us but what god has destined for us.

14.4 god misleads who he will and whom he will he guides

18. 101 The infidels [that's me btw] whose eyes were veiled from my warning and had no power to hear.

57.22 No disaster occurs on earth or accident in yourselves which was not already recorded in the book before we created them.

So, yup, you and I both have no freewill.

Believe it if you like. I reject those claims.

And that's where we differ.

Anytime. No need to thank me.

Big Grin

Ah! Then we are on the same page. Your heart will decide. But if you take one step towards God, he will walk towards you.
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17-09-2015, 09:03 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2015 09:06 AM by ahp2015.)
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable

Ah! Then we are on the same page. Your heart will decide. But if you take one step towards God, he will walk towards you.
[/quote]

Find the hadith that mentions the man who killed 99 men and the fight between the angels of mercy and death over his soul. Subjectively speaking it could prove to be nothing more than nonsense but if you get something Good from it, it's not from me.
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17-09-2015, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2015 09:09 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 09:00 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  ...
f you take one step towards God, he will walk towards you.

Evidence for this claim, please?

Thanks.

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17-09-2015, 09:07 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 09:00 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  Your heart will decide.

Also, are you saying that my own conscience is god? Fair enough. But no need for two labels.

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17-09-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 09:06 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Evidence for this claim, please?

Thanks.

As requested;

The Legislative Proof and Evidence. The Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions.

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/11/2...ith-qudsi/

http://sunnah.com/search/?q=draws+close+to+me

Sahih Muslim » The Book Pertaining to the Remembrance of Allah, Supplication, Repentance and Seeking Forgiveness

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said:

When My servant draws close to Me by the span of a palm, I draw close to him by the cubit and when he draws close to Me by the cubit, I draw close to him by the space (covered) by two armspans, and when he comes to me walking, I go in a hurry towards him.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارِ بْنِ عُثْمَانَ الْعَبْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ سَعِيدٍ - وَابْنُ أَبِي عَدِيٍّ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ، - وَهُوَ التَّيْمِيُّ - عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ إِذَا تَقَرَّبَ عَبْدِي مِنِّي شِبْرًا تَقَرَّبْتُ مِنْهُ ذِرَاعًا وَإِذَا تَقَرَّبَ مِنِّي ذِرَاعًا تَقَرَّبْتُ مِنْهُ بَاعًا - أَوْ بُوعًا - وَإِذَا أَتَانِي يَمْشِي أَتَيْتُهُ هَرْوَلَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏
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17-09-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: Proof and Evidence; Unilaterally Undeniable
(17-09-2015 09:23 AM)ahp2015 Wrote:  
(17-09-2015 09:06 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Evidence for this claim, please?

Thanks.

As requested;

The Legislative Proof and Evidence. The Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions.

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2011/11/2...ith-qudsi/

http://sunnah.com/search/?q=draws+close+to+me

Sahih Muslim » The Book Pertaining to the Remembrance of Allah, Supplication, Repentance and Seeking Forgiveness

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said:

When My servant draws close to Me by the span of a palm, I draw close to him by the cubit and when he draws close to Me by the cubit, I draw close to him by the space (covered) by two armspans, and when he comes to me walking, I go in a hurry towards him.


حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارِ بْنِ عُثْمَانَ الْعَبْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ سَعِيدٍ - وَابْنُ أَبِي عَدِيٍّ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ، - وَهُوَ التَّيْمِيُّ - عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ إِذَا تَقَرَّبَ عَبْدِي مِنِّي شِبْرًا تَقَرَّبْتُ مِنْهُ ذِرَاعًا وَإِذَا تَقَرَّبَ مِنِّي ذِرَاعًا تَقَرَّبْتُ مِنْهُ بَاعًا - أَوْ بُوعًا - وَإِذَا أَتَانِي يَمْشِي أَتَيْتُهُ هَرْوَلَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏

That's a shame. I thought you were going to give me something substantial.

He said that she said that he said has no value.

If you're going to use the Hadith / Sunnah, you'll need first to provide evidence that Mo was a real person not just another King Arthur, Robin Hood, Jesus of Naz, Apollonius of Tyana etc.

Once you've done that, you'll need to demonstrate the methodology by which hearsay can be considered valid and sound.

Cheers.

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