Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
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24-11-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
you want real crazy? here ya go: http://www.foxnews.com/archive/author/to...index.html

This is one of the guys that is obsessed with the "apparent discrimination against Christianity in the military"

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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24-11-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(24-11-2013 07:18 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 05:07 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  ...
and then talk about Jesus being a fan of unregulated capitalism.

yabut, Jesus was anti-investment... he gave no thought for the morrow.

Consider

If my Daddy was omnipotent I wouldn't be either. Tongue

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24-11-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
I feel that the the shadowy powers in the republican party created a Gerrymandered Frankenstein monster that they cant control. it was at first was to gin up support and get people to the polls and put republicans in office. Now the republican candidate has to swing far far to the right to win the primaries then swerve to the center and some times a little left to win general elections.
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26-11-2013, 06:51 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(23-11-2013 05:07 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 01:50 PM)Neversure Wrote:  I'm not a conservative now, though I used to be. I can say that with many of recently elected "conservatives", they are claiming the title but don't represent the ideology properly.

I'd agree. Conservatism is primarily about supporting tradition. A conservative might support minor progressive legislation to attend to a problem, or support reversion of a law they deem unnecessary or harmful. But foremost a conservative desires to maintain the status quo (thus the term, conservative - one who wishes to conserve a thing). The Republican Party has, instead, created an idealized, revisionist version of history, and uses that as the basis for socially and economically regressive legislation. I hear it all the time from senators and congressmen talking about 'the founding fathers' and constitution, where they spout a bunch of bullshit about how America was carved straight from the Bible, and then talk about Jesus being a fan of unregulated capitalism.

None of the Founding Fathers (enlightenment progressives), Abraham Lincoln (abolitionist), or even Ronald Regan (who enacted the EPA), could ever get elected as a Republican today. Hell I'm pretty sure that brown skinned, foreign born, free health-care, socialist, hippy Jesus couldn't get elected either... Drinking Beverage

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26-11-2013, 07:03 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(26-11-2013 06:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 05:07 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  I'd agree. Conservatism is primarily about supporting tradition. A conservative might support minor progressive legislation to attend to a problem, or support reversion of a law they deem unnecessary or harmful. But foremost a conservative desires to maintain the status quo (thus the term, conservative - one who wishes to conserve a thing). The Republican Party has, instead, created an idealized, revisionist version of history, and uses that as the basis for socially and economically regressive legislation. I hear it all the time from senators and congressmen talking about 'the founding fathers' and constitution, where they spout a bunch of bullshit about how America was carved straight from the Bible, and then talk about Jesus being a fan of unregulated capitalism.

None of the Founding Fathers (enlightenment progressives), Abraham Lincoln (abolitionist), or even Ronald Regan (who enacted the EPA), could ever get elected as a Republican today. Hell I'm pretty sure that brown skinned, foreign born, free health-care, socialist, hippy Jesus couldn't get elected either... Drinking Beverage

I agree that the Republican Party has lost it's way....but I think Jesus would be a hippy anarchist.

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26-11-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(26-11-2013 06:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  None of the Founding Fathers (enlightenment progressives), Abraham Lincoln (abolitionist), or even Ronald Regan (who enacted the EPA), could ever get elected as a Republican today. Hell I'm pretty sure that brown skinned, foreign born, free health-care, socialist, hippy Jesus couldn't get elected either... Drinking Beverage

Agreed. It's hard to believe that not that long ago, Democrats were pro-slavery, they supported their military wing, the KKK, and Republicans were the ones who argued for decentralized power, equal rights, freed the slaves, and wanted to live in peace.

Now, both parties are equally fucked up.
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26-11-2013, 09:20 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(26-11-2013 09:01 AM)frankksj Wrote:  
(26-11-2013 06:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  None of the Founding Fathers (enlightenment progressives), Abraham Lincoln (abolitionist), or even Ronald Regan (who enacted the EPA), could ever get elected as a Republican today. Hell I'm pretty sure that brown skinned, foreign born, free health-care, socialist, hippy Jesus couldn't get elected either... Drinking Beverage

Agreed. It's hard to believe that not that long ago, Democrats were pro-slavery, they supported their military wing, the KKK, and Republicans were the ones who argued for decentralized power, equal rights, freed the slaves, and wanted to live in peace.

Now, both parties are equally fucked up.

I would say that the GOP is worse off. They are worse on social issues and nearly as bad on financial issues.

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26-11-2013, 10:00 AM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(26-11-2013 09:20 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I would say that the GOP is worse off. They are worse on social issues and nearly as bad on financial issues.

True. And on financial issues, while I'm not in favor of a big state, it's better to tax and spend on welfare than on genocide to wipe out Iraq.

BUT, the GOP is more willing to tolerate decentralized power, whereas the Democrats seem to always insist that everything must be done at a national level and are unwilling to compromise on having all the power concentrated in the capital, Washington DC. The Democrats are also the ones who insisted the US build a "Berlin Wall" to block Americans who are fed up from ever being able to leave, and are the ones who agreed with N Korea and Cuba that we're born bound to a social contract that obligates us to support the state till death, with no means of escape.

Which amazes me, because, for example, this weekend I saw Hunger Games 2 with some friends (all Democrats), and, naturally, everybody would hate to see the future turn out like that, with all the wealth and power concentrated in the capital, BUT, if the topic turns political, the Democrats seem to universally agree that the way to prevent concentrated, centralized power and an all-powerful government, is to have concentrated, centralized power and an all-powerful government. The best way to prevent future generations from living like in a world like the Hunger Games, is to give them a political system exactly like the Hunger Games. When you put the Democrats' action-plan in a picture, as someone posted before, they'll laugh, but they don't seem to see the irony.

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26-11-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
I'm not a democrat, but I think I feel safe saying that most democrats don't want a monarchy/fascist state/dictatorship etc. While there is argument to be made that natural power tends to be for power to flow into fewer and fewer hands over time, and that we could get there quicker as an unintended consequence of a Democrat's wish, you could say the same of a Libertarian, it would just take longer to get to that point.

Also, while I agree that the war in Iraq wasn't on moral grounds, I would hardly call what happened there a 'genocide'. As a matter of fact I think calling it such is offensive.

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26-11-2013, 04:24 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2013 04:30 PM by frankksj.)
RE: Proof conservatives can never hit rock bottom
(26-11-2013 03:49 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm not a democrat, but I think I feel safe saying that most democrats don't want a monarchy/fascist state/dictatorship etc. While there is argument to be made that natural power tends to be for power to flow into fewer and fewer hands over time, and that we could get there quicker as an unintended consequence of a Democrat's wish, you could say the same of a Libertarian, it would just take longer to get to that point.

I don't follow. Say the country followed the Libertarian "bible" (the constitution) which states that the Federal government has a very limited set of enumerated powers, all of which are defending basic human rights, and none of which initiate coercion, and everything else is left to the states, and that all citizens are granted freedom of movement to relocate from one state to another with no barriers...

So how would that ever turn into an oppressive regime? Certainly the Federal government couldn't be oppressive if they followed the classic liberal (Libertarian) system, since the Federal government would have no power to use coercion. Now individual States _COULD_ become tyrannical and concentrate all the power in their respective capitals. But, since the Federal government guarantees freedom of mobility, the people would just leave and move to another state, leaving the tyrants with no subjects to oppress.

It seems to me that the libertarian system of Federalism could survive forever because it's impossible for power to be concentrated under this system, which ensures checks and balances.

(26-11-2013 03:49 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Also, while I agree that the war in Iraq wasn't on moral grounds, I would hardly call what happened there a 'genocide'. As a matter of fact I think calling it such is offensive.

Is it any more offensive than when the UN released a report condemning the US for killing 500,000 Iraqi children, and then when Secretary of State Madeline Albright was confronted with it, she acknowledged killing them, expressed zero remorse, and said "it was worth it", and when asked WHAT was actually accomplished that "was worth" killing half a million kids, should couldn't come up with one single positive thing that came out of it, implying that killing a generation of children was just done for the heck of it. In my book, killing half a million kids for no reason in a country of 30m is egregious enough to warrant the harshest condemnation words can muster, even if the literal definition "genocide" isn't met.
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