Proof of Jesus?
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30-12-2012, 09:24 PM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(30-12-2012 09:20 PM)Free Wrote:  Question: Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that Jesus did not exist?



Smile

I remember being with Paul at Corinth and knowing what he was up to. Big Grin

Sure it's fucking whack, but I'm a prophet. Made of whack. But what I do 't get is why you're still at this, and why you care. Consider

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30-12-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(30-12-2012 09:20 PM)Free Wrote:  Well, if you really think all that, then watch closely how, with one simple request, your argument will utterly be destroyed.


Question: Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that Jesus did not exist?


I'll await your answer. Let's see how you do.

Smile
Why are you asking him to do something that is impossible? Consider

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31-12-2012, 08:09 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(30-12-2012 09:33 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(30-12-2012 09:20 PM)Free Wrote:  Well, if you really think all that, then watch closely how, with one simple request, your argument will utterly be destroyed.


Question: Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that Jesus did not exist?


I'll await your answer. Let's see how you do.

Smile
Why are you asking him to do something that is impossible? Consider


That's my point. His task is impossible.

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31-12-2012, 08:20 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
Question: Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that Harry Potter did not exist?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2012, 08:33 AM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2012 08:41 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(30-12-2012 06:54 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(27-12-2012 08:17 AM)Free Wrote:  What I like or dislike is irrelevant.

No, it's really not. Are you familiar with the "fallacy fallacy"? It's where you write off an argument entirely because you spot a fallacy (or think you did). You made it clear that you don't recognize this fallacy when you said "most of those anti-existence arguments are full of holes when analyzed closely" and when you continue to play "spot the fallacy" with my arguments.

The reason that dis-confirming evidence is required in your arguments (and mine, and everyone's) is to prevent confirmation bias from preventing rational thought. If you don't recognize a line of evidence that would change your mind if it was presented, then you really don't have the "open mind" that you're claiming to have -- it means you can make any evidence fit your preconceived belief. And that appears to be the case here. Your evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is that there are "multiple attestations" of his existence, and when I attempted to prove that those multiple attestations are all from only one or two sources at most, you tried to find a flaw in my argument rather than to present evidence to the contrary. Did you realize that multiple attestations, even if you could prove such a case, is not enough to prove Jesus was real? There have been false events and false people attested to by multiple witnesses, and because of that, your evidence requires a stronger backing... but it doesn't even have that, and you'd recognize that if you weighed the evidence yourself rather than to try to block my attempts to provide evidence by calling it "flawed". You, too, are capable of bringing evidence against your argument forward. Have you even tried?

And please, stop trying to prove that you're an "expert" in debate and historical method. I've heard real experts discuss historical method, which is why I recognized your method to be lacking. And if you really were an "x-champion debater", I'd imagine you could (and would) cite it. I'm not going to take your word for it, especially after these examples given of your performance. But even if those things were true, they wouldn't make your evidence stronger or your argument more valid.
Thanks StarC for the Dr. Rich Carrier link. There are a bunch of other vids by him on YouTube also. It is really interesting to see all the nonsense in it's historical context. It confirms my contention all along, that nothing any of them say about religious subjects is reliable, in a day when a "magical" worldview was so widely held.

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31-12-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(31-12-2012 08:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  Question: Can you provide any evidence whatsoever to demonstrate that Harry Potter did not exist?
Yep, same situation.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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31-12-2012, 09:35 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
Quote:But what I do 't get is why you're still at this, and why you care.



Two reasons:

1. Historical value.

2. I simply like to argue. Smile

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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31-12-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(31-12-2012 09:35 AM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:But what I do 't get is why you're still at this, and why you care.



Two reasons:

1. Historical value.

2. I simply like to argue. Smile


Only #2 is important or interesting.

Whether or not Jesus existed, he wasn't divine, wasn't the son of god, wasn't the messiah, didn't perform miracles, didn't rise from the dead.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2012, 10:53 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
(31-12-2012 10:18 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-12-2012 09:35 AM)Free Wrote:  Two reasons:

1. Historical value.

2. I simply like to argue. Smile


Only #2 is important or interesting.

Whether or not Jesus existed, he wasn't divine, wasn't the son of god, wasn't the messiah, didn't perform miracles, didn't rise from the dead.


Agreed.

He was a nut case.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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31-12-2012, 11:18 AM
RE: Proof of Jesus?
We all know there was a Jesus. Heck, there are all sorts of guys called Jesus living in East LA right now.
Two thousand years from now we will be worshipping the great Gandalf and his disciples Bilbo, Frodo and the dwarves. The clear story of heavenly redemption of the human race will be found in the dusty tomes called "The Silmarilion" and "The Lord of the RIngs" scavenged from the ruins of the library of Congress. Nobody alive will remember the actual events that inspired the sacred text, but since nobody can actually deny the existence of the people involved, there will be millions of followers world-wide. Wars will be fought over the correct interpretation of the sacred texts, different sects will spring up and there will be huge debates over the TRUE way. And everybody will miss the message behind the text: do right to each other and live peacefully.
Everyone knows you cannot possibly prove a negative. You either believe Jesus existed or not. I personally believe at least one Jesus existed: his last name was Hernandez and he does great body-work out of his home garage.
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