Proof that Evidence and Reason can change minds.
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14-02-2014, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2014 02:25 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Proof that Evidence and Reason can change minds.
(13-02-2014 10:46 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 10:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You are skeptical of a guy giving his personal reasons for changing his mind, something that people do all the time and that we have plenty of evidence for. That's what thinking, rational, adults do; they evaluate their beliefs and sometimes change their minds when presented with contrary evidence.
I don't argue with that. I only said that he is another preacher and I can be skeptical. I was skeptical of LDS Doctrine when it was presented to me.

What is the point of being skeptical of a persons professed opinion? Especially when, all things considered, he has far more to lose from voicing this particular opinion in this fashion. There is a very little reason to doubt him, both specifically and generally. This isn't a politician on the campaign trail, who is expected to say what they think will get them elected regardless of what they really think or in regards to their previous track record; that is a time to be very skeptical of a person's professed opinion.


(13-02-2014 10:46 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 10:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Compare that to your uncritical acceptance that an angel visited Joseph Smith (no evidence for angels), and totally gave him the tools needed to translate some Golden Plates (no evidence the plates actually existed) which contained a divine revelation (just one among thousands of other such claims to divine authority), but no! That shit totally happened! And it really is the word of God! Because somebody told me it is!
I was skeptical of Smith's testimony. But when I received PERSONAL revelation from God I was not skeptical any more.

But you were not skeptical of your 'revelation', that you conveniently had after you were exposed to the LDS doctrine. You live in a world where there are thousands who claim revelation from gods, and almost none of them agree with each other! You live in a world where people can hallucinate and experience waking dreams. What did you do to confirm that your 'revelation' was in fact god, and not just your imagination preying on your subconscious?

So when I said 'skeptical my ass', this is what I meant. You are not applying the same level of skepticism to your own claimed experiences. This means that you are not a skeptic, in any real effective sense; because you do nothing to take into account or correct for how you can fool yourself.


(13-02-2014 10:46 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 10:14 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Skeptical my ass, you don't have the first fucking clue how to be skeptical, because you apply it subjectively. For fuck's sake Alla, go get yourself one of these...
you believe this preacher. Fine.

I do, because he has met the relatively low burden that reasonable skepticism would require of him. If however you doubt him, if you are so skeptical of him and his claims to his own opinion; if you applied that same level of skepticism to your own religious texts, you would be by all rights an unbeliever. If you are so skeptical that you cannot believe this former preacher, then there is no reason for you to believe any of the Gospels or anything Joseph Smith wrote.

Therein is the point, you don't apply your skepticism the same across the board. You apply it selectively, doubting things that you don't agree with, and giving a pass to those things that already agree with what you want to believe. That makes you a hypocrite, and not at all a good skeptic. So stop saying you were raised as a skeptic in an attempt to deflect criticism, because in practice you fail at it miserably.

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06-07-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: Proof that Evidence and Reason can change minds.
(12-02-2014 01:20 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Just take a look at this video, posted by the YouTube channel VirtualDeafChurch, as a personal vlog for Pastor Justin Vollmar.






This is exactly the reason why I completely disagree with the statement used by many atheists, "you can't reason someone out of a belief that they did not reason themselves into".

I am sure that a high percentage of people on this very forum were reasoned out of their religious beliefs.
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06-07-2016, 07:23 PM
RE: Proof that Evidence and Reason can change minds.
(13-02-2014 10:46 AM)Alla Wrote:  I was skeptical of Smith's testimony. But when I received PERSONAL revelation from God I was not skeptical any more.

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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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