Proof that God doesn't exist
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24-03-2017, 04:33 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2017 07:01 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(23-03-2017 09:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  If we assume that there is REAL God who exists in REAL world then we have to assume that He can do ALL/ANY REAL things.

Such a God would be limited by nature. Nature would be greater than God. The problem is that (supposedly) God created nature, and could have created it differently. So if God limited his own powers, is he still an all-powerful God? Can prayers do anything useful? Can God work miracles? Can people still live on after death? Does God still deserve to be worshipped?

Huh
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24-03-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(23-03-2017 09:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  If we assume that there is REAL God who exists in REAL world then we have to assume that He can do ALL/ANY REAL things.

If God creates this (our, then one we live in) reality, then he could have created another reality. If he would have had created another reality, or if he indeed has created another reality (a kind of "additional" reality that we have no access to), then he can do things in this other reality.

Now, if he can do only certain things in our reality, and only other things in "the other" reality, then he is not omnipotent. A God more powerful than your god, could create two different realities (because gods arent bound by the realities they are going to create in the future, they are above and outside those realities, are they?) and could do all kind of things (without limitation) in either reality. If he can create two different realities and can not do anything anymore within those realities, then he is limited in his abilities, limited -ironically- by his own actions that led to those realities.

Of course all this is -sorry to say- not very sound and pretty much nonsensical. Because first "reality" has to be defined, then it has to be determined if "reality" comes only in numbers of "one" or more. Then the ability to "be" without/prior to reality needs to be established to be at least possible if not probable, etc.

Lets be honest, what you are engaged in here is post hoc rationalisation of what you already believe, on faith, without good reason, contratdicting logic, the evidence and information you already have access to, namely that not even your god could possibly be able to do things which would be incoherent in this reality we are experiencing, and you are trying to define sense into your pre existing belief ....of a God, who exists outside and above reality, but is nevertheless bound to our reality as if he was inside, but still is supposed to be "omnipotent".

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24-03-2017, 08:05 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
SYZ Wrote:If your god is omnipotent, then why are there still amputees in the world.
So, for the argument sake we assumed that God is real. Then I automatically assumed that He can create anything, meaning any real thing. But I didn't assume that this God creates absolutely everything.
Should I assume this? If I assumed that there is real God I would never assumed that He created my physical body. I KNOW who participated in creating my imperfect mortal physical body.

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24-03-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
If god was real, we would just ask them to clarify.

*whips out classic 90's flip phone*
"Hey yo, G!"

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24-03-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(24-03-2017 04:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 09:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  If we assume that there is REAL God who exists in REAL world then we have to assume that He can do ALL/ANY REAL things.

Such a God would be limited by nature. Nature would be greater than God. The problem is that (supposedly) God created nature, and could have created it differently. So if God limited his own powers, is he still an all-powerful God? Can prayers do anything useful? Can God work miracles? Can people still live on after death? Does God still deserve to be worshipped?

Huh

I would understand it as him doing things that appear rational to us. That an omnipotent God does not mean he has the ability to do irrational things. Ergo he can create an immovable and even indestructible object and be unable to move it or destroy it himself. Because that is how he would have created it. If he can move it or destroy it, then it is neither immovable and indestructible in the first place.

It is certainly provable that such an entity exists in the imaginations of some. Even I can imagine him. But it is only evidence that the brain has an impressive capacity for creativity and imagination. It's not evidence that he exists.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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24-03-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(24-03-2017 04:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Such a God would be limited by nature. Nature would be greater than God.
The problem is that (supposedly) God created nature, and could have created it differently.
So if God limited his own powers, is he still an all-powerful God?
When you say "nature" what are you talking about?
(24-03-2017 04:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Can prayers do anything useful?
For the argument sake I will assume that they can do something useful.
(24-03-2017 04:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Can God work miracles? Can people still live on after death? Does God still deserve to be worshipped?
For the argument sake I may assume all this.

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24-03-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(24-03-2017 08:16 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-03-2017 04:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Such a God would be limited by nature. Nature would be greater than God.
The problem is that (supposedly) God created nature, and could have created it differently.
So if God limited his own powers, is he still an all-powerful God?
When you say "nature" what are you talking about?

If God is limited by what is reasonable, as you have asserted, and what is reasonable is how nature actually behaves without any supernatural influences, then how can you still assume God can exercise any supernatural influences at all?

Huh
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24-03-2017, 11:55 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2017 11:59 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(24-03-2017 08:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  
SYZ Wrote:If your god is omnipotent, then why are there still amputees in the world.
So, for the argument sake we assumed that God is real. Then I automatically assumed that He can create anything, meaning any real thing. But I didn't assume that this God creates absolutely everything.
Should I assume this? If I assumed that there is real God I would never assumed that He created my physical body. I KNOW who participated in creating my imperfect mortal physical body.

So your deity is not the "creator of all things".
Facepalm
Very odd.

Physical bodies are neither perfect nor imperfect. Just because you could imagine a body that works differently, does not mean the one you have, is imperfect. In fact, bodies work perfectly. They get the job done, as far as Evolution goes. Enough of them reproduce to pass on DNA from the successful individuals. The big picture is not about individuals. It's about the survival of the race. Individuals don't survive, and are not supposed to. Evolution doesn't need individuals to survive.

A god that is "real" is required to participate in (only a sub-set of) a larger Reality, of necessity. That means (as was said above) that god is subject to Reality, not it's master. Gods can't "do" anything. In order to *do* something, they must act. Actions in a timeless environment are meaningless incoherent nonsense. In order to act, they must *create* time, first. It's not possible to "create" causality, unless causality is in place already. There is no way around it. Every concept of any *existing* deity MUST participate in a larger Realty, and that Reality remains unexplained, even with a god.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-03-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
Prove the impotent god doesn't exist

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24-03-2017, 12:42 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(24-03-2017 11:59 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Prove the impotent god doesn't exist

They're everywhere after all.

#sigh
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