Proof that God doesn't exist
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25-03-2017, 06:18 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2017 06:21 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
Duplicate deleted.
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25-03-2017, 06:19 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2017 06:22 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
Duplicate deleted -- not my night.

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25-03-2017, 06:22 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(25-03-2017 06:06 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Gwaithmir Wrote:The Christian God is defined by mainstream Christianity as being all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, and all just. Yet even a cursory reading of the bible reveals a God who is cruel, unjust, tyrannical, unloving and eternally vengeful. Ergo, the Christian God does not exist by reason of self-contradiction.
I agree that mainstream Christianity God doesn't exist.
Gwaithmir Wrote:An all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing God, by definition, cannot create evil or permit evil to exist in the world. And yet, evil exists. Ergo, God, as he is defined, does not exist on the grounds of self-contradiction.
I agree - evil exists. But why does evil exist? Because I am free agent. I govern myself. I choose to do something evil.
Q:Is evil eternal?
A: I believe that as long as free agents exist in the universe evil exists.
Q: Was it ever time in the universe when free agents didn't exist?
A: I don't know but I believe that there was never such time in eternity and infinity. This is why I believe that evil is eternal. And good is eternal.


Gwaithmir Wrote:The law of conservation of matter and energy states that the total quantity of energy in the universe remains the same. Matter and energy are interchangeable, but neither can be created or destroyed. Ergo, the universe has always existed and will always exist in one form or another. God is unnecessary by the Principle of Parsimony.
If you are talking about God who created universe( everything) out of nothing then you are talking about God that never existed, doesn't exist and will never exist.
I believe in God who didn't create matter. I believe in God who can not destroy matter. I believe in God who is organized out of eternal matter. I believe that I am organized out of eternal matter.
So, God is unnecessary in creating matter. Matter is eternal. But I may assume that God knows how to "take" eternal matter and to "organize" something out of it.

> “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” (Epicurus) Consider
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25-03-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(25-03-2017 05:23 PM)treefireguy Wrote:  It is not scientifically possible to prove a god doesn't exist.


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> It is if that god is defined in a testable way, as is the Christian God.
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25-03-2017, 06:26 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(25-03-2017 06:22 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” (Epicurus) Consider

The mistake I made (wasting over two decades of my life) was to take up the burden of proof for God. You can redefine God again and again, but each redefinition has its own problems. In the end, you might be lucky enough to realize you were rationalizing what you wanted to believe all along. It's better to look at the whole question impartially, without taking sides from the outset, and read all the arguments for and against. But how many people do that?
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25-03-2017, 06:32 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(25-03-2017 06:26 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(25-03-2017 06:22 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” (Epicurus) Consider

The mistake I made (wasting over two decades of my life) was to take up the burden of proof for God. You can redefine God again and again, but each redefinition has its own problems. In the end, you might be lucky enough to realize you were rationalizing what you wanted to believe all along. It's better to look at the whole question impartially, without taking sides from the outset, and read all the arguments for and against. But how many people do that?

> I left agnosticism behind and discovered that I was an atheist when I learned (in 1982) that the onus of proof lies with the proponent of God's existence. It is not the responsibility of the skeptic to prove that God does not exist. So it is for every religion and every god.

> "That which may be asserted without evidence may also be dismissed without evidence." (Christopher Hitchens)
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25-03-2017, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2017 07:59 PM by Alla.)
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
Jay Vogelsong Wrote:What about natural evils?
I don't believe that there is such thing as natural evils but I understood what you were saying.
Jay Vogelsong Wrote:If a God exists who can control things like epidemics, floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, natural abortions and so on -- and he doesn't choose to -- then he is responsible for such evils. With power comes responsibility.
If assumed God can control those things and He doesn't then it is His will and it must be at least one reason for that.
Jay Vogelsong Wrote:And if you say he can't control such things because that's just nature, why believe in such a God at all? What does he add to the picture?
If we assume that God is real and He is omnipotent meaning He can create and do any real/realistic thing then we can not say that He can not control.

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25-03-2017, 07:58 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
Gwaithmir Wrote:“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
I agree.
Gwaithmir Wrote:Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
I wonder what would be the reason for not willing to stop natural evil?
Gwaithmir Wrote:Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Hmm...
Gwaithmir Wrote:Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” (Epicurus)
I agree.

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25-03-2017, 10:12 PM
Proof that God doesn't exist
One thing is for sure. There are no gods. Of any type. No heaven. No hell. No angels. No spirits. Nothing. . Anywhere. So have a nice day and try to enjoy your life!


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25-03-2017, 11:02 PM
RE: Proof that God doesn't exist
(25-03-2017 05:23 PM)treefireguy Wrote:  It is not scientifically possible to prove a god doesn't exist.


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Until someone gives a scientific definition of what it even is, then it is indeed impossible. The fact that they can't formulate it into a falsifiable proposition says a lot though.

If you scrape away the meaningless drivel and just suggest an intelligent creator of our reality, I'd say this is also unfalsifiable. At least for now. It's also of no practical importance.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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