Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
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14-06-2017, 09:45 AM
Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
I was reading through the gun owner and the LGBT subforum threads and it got me thinking. Should we make an addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread to add a paragraph on etiquette? While I am certain that no moderator want to police people uses of prophanities and insults, a task to amount at single handedly coutning all the stars in the night sky, I think it wouldn't hurt to make a ''declaration of goodwill'' toward civility in the forum ethics and behavior. It would be somthing like: ''We encourage you to participate in all the debates that interest you, but would stress the importance of remaining polite and civil a much as possible and avoid inflamatory or provocative comments whenever possible. Should you feel harassed or subject to threats, you can always contact by PM a moderator to investigate the matter''.

While those threads talk about very interesting topics open for debate, they are plagued by post after post of more or less funny snarks and downright insults. It makes participation to those threads extremely difficult and uninviting especially since they escalte to flame wars that can extend for pages with actual good post imbeded in all this crap. Do you think that it would be a good idea?

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14-06-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
Fuck no.
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14-06-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
(14-06-2017 09:51 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Fuck no.

Not that I want to be dismissive of your opinion on that subject, but I think the entire member base knew you would be against it.Tongue

At, least, when I wrote that post, I had you in mind and a knew you would disagree.

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14-06-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
(14-06-2017 09:45 AM)epronovost Wrote:  I was reading through the gun owner and the LGBT subforum threads and it got me thinking. Should we make an addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread to add a paragraph on etiquette? While I am certain that no moderator want to police people uses of prophanities and insults, a task to amount at single handedly coutning all the stars in the night sky, I think it wouldn't hurt to make a ''declaration of goodwill'' toward civility in the forum ethics and behavior. It would be somthing like: ''We encourage you to participate in all the debates that interest you, but would stress the importance of remaining polite and civil a much as possible and avoid inflamatory or provocative comments whenever possible. Should you feel harassed or subject to threats, you can always contact by PM a moderator to investigate the matter''.

While those threads talk about very interesting topics open for debate, they are plagued by post after post of more or less funny snarks and downright insults. It makes participation to those threads extremely difficult and uninviting especially since they escalte to flame wars that can extend for pages with actual good post imbeded in all this crap. Do you think that it would be a good idea?

Though I genuinely understand the sentiment to reduce ad hominem attacks on individuals I think that would very much go against something that I, and I believe others, sincerely value about this forum: no restriction of speech.

I do very much agree with the cessation of accounts that are troll-based but when people say things that are stupid, unethical, and bigoted and aren't doing t to spam to just to get their jollies and they are doing it out of dislike, I fail to see why that should need censorship. Because, highly subjective as it may seem, what might count as hate speech to me may not be the same for you.

Ad hominem isn't the maker of a good argument, no. But, if you honestly think that censoring someone's comments will make the problem go away it will not. It will only draw attention to the person to whom was banned or penalized. Surely, having someone make a fool out of themselves by being ignorant a better way of fighting, no?
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14-06-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
We would need a separate mod to monitor and edit each thread and post in every section of the forum.
That just isn't doable.
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14-06-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
(14-06-2017 10:03 AM)Larai19 Wrote:  I do very much agree with the cessation of accounts that are troll-based but when people say things that are stupid, unethical, and bigoted and aren't doing t to spam to just to get their jollies and they are doing it out of dislike, I fail to see why that should need censorship. Because, highly subjective as it may seem, what might count as hate speech to me may not be the same for you.

Ad hominem isn't the maker of a good argument, no. But, if you honestly think that censoring someone's comments will make the problem go away it will not. It will only draw attention to the person to whom was banned or penalized. Surely, having someone make a fool out of themselves by being ignorant a better way of fighting, no?

Eh?

Maybe I didn't expressed myself correctly. I didn't call for any form of censorship at all. I proposed a declaration of intent. That means a non binding statement in favor of a value that has only a symbolic weight. The only thing it would change is proclaim that, while not enfoced in any way or fashion, we are seeking and ecouraging people to be civil when they talk to strangers. In no way would this result in a ban or disciplinary measures (unless it turns to harassment or threats which is already the case).

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14-06-2017, 10:21 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2017 10:26 AM by julep.)
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
I agree that it's often tiresome and annoying when a once-interesting thread devolves, and I understand that your proposed addition would only ask, not demand, civility. I think I'd still prefer to keep things the way they are. The reason for that is that policing tone also often results, effectively, in policing content. Also I have to admit that some of the flames are entertaining in themselves.

A suggestion, though: an option that I don't see used here as much as elsewhere is the spinoff thread, where someone takes an idea that came up in the derailed thread and starts a separate discussion of it. Maybe worth trying, next time?
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14-06-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
(14-06-2017 10:14 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 10:03 AM)Larai19 Wrote:  I do very much agree with the cessation of accounts that are troll-based but when people say things that are stupid, unethical, and bigoted and aren't doing t to spam to just to get their jollies and they are doing it out of dislike, I fail to see why that should need censorship. Because, highly subjective as it may seem, what might count as hate speech to me may not be the same for you.

Ad hominem isn't the maker of a good argument, no. But, if you honestly think that censoring someone's comments will make the problem go away it will not. It will only draw attention to the person to whom was banned or penalized. Surely, having someone make a fool out of themselves by being ignorant a better way of fighting, no?

Eh?

Maybe I didn't expressed myself correctly. I didn't call for any form of censorship at all. I proposed a declaration of intent. That means a non binding statement in favor of a value that has only a symbolic weight. The only thing it would change is proclaim that, while not enfoced in any way or fashion, we are seeking and ecouraging people to be civil when they talk to strangers. In no way would this result in a ban or disciplinary measures (unless it turns to harassment or threats which is already the case).

Oh, I see. I apologize. I misread.

It does seem a bit difficult to enforce though, no?
And I still maintain that it would be hard to objectively determine what isn't civil. Though, I'm sure most of what is said here is obvious in that matter. Laugh out load
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14-06-2017, 10:30 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
(14-06-2017 10:23 AM)Larai19 Wrote:  Though, I'm sure most of what is said here is obvious in that matter. Laugh out load

I would KISS it on that specific point.

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14-06-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: Proposed addendum to the Forum Principles & Culture, Ethics and Behavior thread
Short answer No.

Long Answer Hell No.

This is the exact opposite of one of the founding principles of this forum. We already have 2 protected areas (which might be 2 too many) and extending that to the rest of the forum neuters what makes this place special.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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