Prostitution
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16-09-2010, 10:00 PM
RE: Prostitution
Prostitutes are a bit iffy to me. The posh types "escorts" and stuff should be legalized and regulated, but the curb crawling type with with drugs and the being murdered all the time... There should be some sort of help system, like a forced rehab program or something.

Jesus Jumping Christ on a traction engine wearing a kilt and eating a marmite sandwich!!!
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16-09-2010, 10:34 PM
 
RE: Prostitution
(16-09-2010 09:04 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I find it interesting that a thread started for the purpose of discussing legalization of prostitution has very quickly changed to a discussion about FEMALE prostitutes.

Just sayin.

That was pretty sexist, huh? Smile
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17-09-2010, 12:52 AM
RE: Prostitution
Nobody has mentioned the biggest problem with illegal prostitution, pimps and gangs. Many women are forced into prostitution due to poverty. Many others are run-aways from disfunctioal homes. Both groups become targets for pimps and gangs, who turn the prostitutes into slaves by threat of violence. These threats are NOT IDLE THREATS. Holding out as an independent, not turning profits over to the Boss, not following orders or failing to meet a quota usually gets the prostitute beaten and sometimes killed by the pimp or gang that own her. Legalized prostitution would work like a regular business and prostitutes would have rights and legal protection that they don't have now. (Yes, there are some places where prostitutes can be independant, but more often they become victims and slaves).
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17-09-2010, 01:14 AM
RE: Prostitution
(16-09-2010 10:34 PM)athnostic Wrote:  
(16-09-2010 09:04 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I find it interesting that a thread started for the purpose of discussing legalization of prostitution has very quickly changed to a discussion about FEMALE prostitutes.

Just sayin.

That was pretty sexist, huh? Smile

Well, I am sure it was unintentional, so I'll let it slide. LOL.
My reasong for saying so is twofold. First, generally speaking, male prostitutes tend to endure a great deal of abuse and hardship, while recieving the least amount of help. Second, is to get you guys thinking more outside the box.
I am friends with a couple that formerly owned an "escort service". As a result, I became friends with several of the girls (it was a female only service) that worked for them. This exposure to the sex trade was eye opening to say the least. This was a business that did not allow drug use of any kind, provided around the clock security for its employees, and had tons of support services in place. The girls I got to know, (two in particular became quite good friends) shared a commonality. They did not see sex as an act that was nescessarily connected with love. It didn't have to be anything more than physical pleasure.A service that they gladly provided to customers. An interesting story to provide some perspective: I was at my friends after work one day when "Nikki" (not her real name of course) came over. We sat and talked for a while. At the time I was working long hours on construction. She noticed that I groaned a little when I stood up, and was walking with a bit of a limp. She commented on both, and also mentioned that every time she saw me I had scrapes and scars all over my hands. (Road constrution can be brutal on the hands). Her next comment really got me thinking. She said, "I just can't understand how you can do a job that's so damn abusive to your body". It never even occured to her that some would consider what she does as abusive to her body. In fact she took better care of her body than most people I know. You see, she wasn't an "escort" out of nesessity. She did a job that she enjoyed, that she was good at, and that paid well.
I'm not saying that this is the case for all prostitutes, or even most. What I am saying is that making the assumption that prostitutes are all working under duress, or because they can't do anything else is simply not true. By legalizing the sex trade, we can provide for these workers the same benefits that most of us enjoy, including insurance, support when they lose their jobs due to illness, and a host of other services that the "legally employed" masses take for granted. (And many of those services could be education on how to safely do their jobs, just like I got on a weekly basis on construction).
We often make assumptions about others based on our personal feelings on a topic. "Prostitution objectifies people by using them for sex" (My massage therapist - the legal kind - makes me feel great. Am I objectifying her because she uses her hands to give me physical pleasure?) That person has multiple sex partners so s/he is a slut. (Just because you choose monogamy, does that mean it's a moral that must be right for everyone? This world is full of people who are in polyamorous/polygamous relationships, and are perfectly happy).

What I'm saying is, think beyond what you've previously seen, heard, and assumed. The sex trade could be a healthy, respectable part of society if people would stop placing their own ideas about right and wrong on the shoulders of others. (Many of the ideas condemning the sex trade stem from religion by the way!)

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-SR
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17-09-2010, 01:58 AM
 
RE: Prostitution
By being illegal, prostitution has been forced into the most sordid conditions possible. I also think this is another case where religious-based morality has been forced on our whole society. I feel a lot of concern for a woman or man being forced by circumstances into prostitution, but it needn't be as depraved and negative as it now is (mostly due to its illegality). Done under conditions where STD is minimized and no violence to the prostitute is permitted, it becomes another victimless crime that ought not to be a crime at all. I agree completely with Stark Raving.
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17-09-2010, 06:23 AM
RE: Prostitution
I agree that making prostitution illegal has forced it into the most sordid conditions possible, but, generally speaking, I'm with athnostic on this. Whether or not there are women (and this is overwhelmingly a female problem although there are male prostitutes) who enjoy being prostitutes is, for me, completely besides the point.

A lot of prostitutes are young - under 18 - addicted to drugs, and are basically sex slaves. Legalizing and regulating the sex trade is not going to suddenly free up 16 year old runaways or girls from poor neighborhoods from a life of drug addition and prostitution. If it did, then the Netherlands would not have these problems, and they most certainly do. For example, Link on child prostitution.

Interesting comment in here is that a lot of these child prostitutes are boys, which I admit surprises me.

Anyway, my point is that while making it illegal is not stopping it, that is, for me, still not a reason to have laws in place to protect people who are actual victims. If you have legal, regulated brothels, you are still going to have illegal prostitution and no one can seriously believe these girls (or boys) are doing this willingly and happily.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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17-09-2010, 07:19 AM
RE: Prostitution
I am definitely not suggesting that legalization would put an end to depravity and child prostitution. It would make the trade legal for those that choose to work in it. The fact that brickmaking is a legal trade in India doesn't change the fact that children are paid a pittance to hand make bricks in the street under conditions so terrible that the skin on their hands dries, cracks, and actually tinges the bricks pink because their tiny hands are constantly seeping blood. That doesn't mean brickmaking should be illegal in India, only that the children who are forced to do it under terrible conditions need to be protected. Same with prostitution, construction, accounting, and any other job where someone is being forced to do something they don't want to.

I am for legalizing prostitution. I am not for legalizing child prostitution. Having a legal trade has nothing to do with enforcing fair and humane treatment of people. Legalizing prostitution would neither encourage child prostitution, nor encourage poor working conditions and drug addiction. It would simply provide better conditions for those who make the choice to work as a prostitute. That would be adults making a decision without coersion.

Just making my point a little clearer.

Just visiting.

-SR
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17-09-2010, 07:42 AM
RE: Prostitution
That is a fair and very valid point.

However, it assumes that there are large quantities of people who want to be in the legal sex trade and make their living as prostitutes. I'm sure there are some people like that but my sense is that the overwhelming majority of people in this field are there by force or circumstances.

I confess I go back and forth on this because the position I'm advocating now definitely goes against my more libertarian grain, but there is something about allowing the exploitation of people in the name of personal freedoms or free markets that just does not sit well with me. Again, I know that definition does not fit all circumstances but I can't help but think it applies to 98%.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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17-09-2010, 07:53 AM
RE: Prostitution
It very well may apply to 98%. The point is that the remaining 2% still deserve to be able to practice their chosen profession. Allowing this does no harm to the other 98%. Legalization would not encourage exploitation. It would simply regulate a safe environment for those who choose to do it legally. It could also provide psycological support. For example, the Brothel owned by the people I know actually made it mandatory for their employees to visit a councellor once a month, and offered it once a week to those that wanted it. (Part of why they ran this business was to show that it could be done in a safe and healthy way).

Again, I do realize that a large part of this industry is in the toilet, so to speak. Perhaps if we could garner taxes from those who choose to do it in a professional way, we could direct some of those funds toward helping the people who are being forced into the field against their will.

Just visiting.

-SR
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17-09-2010, 08:02 AM
RE: Prostitution
Quote:Legalization would not encourage exploitation.

It may not encourage it but it certainly does nothing to dissuade it either. Legal sales of alcohol don't encourage alcoholism but without the legal sale of alcohol it would be more difficult to be an alcoholic.

The issue isn't whether or not it encourages exploitation but whether or not it is used in the furtherance of exploitation. Just because 98% of the population does not cause a fatal crash when driving drunk does not mean we should legalize drunk driving (I made that stat up, btw).

All that said, I guess you can say the same thing about the adult film industry, but at least there what happens is documented. And, if these girls get off so much on being paid for sex, why not just do something more respectable, like porn? Cool

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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