Protester Video - what do you think
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-08-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 09:47 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  Standing there peacefully while holding a flag is rowdy behavior?

And what of the man who held the kid down after snatching his flag. Does his behavior get a pass?

It's not rowdy behavior. But it is causing a disturbance. Would that be acceptable behavior at a movie theater (blocking peoples view, ruining the experience for others who really want to be there)? No.

People at a private event have the right to not be interrupted. It's disrespectful. And he's lucky he didn't get his little ass kicked by some MAGA redneck. Being held down probably saved his ass.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
http://wkbn.com/2017/08/04/excessive-for...ump-rally/

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

[Image: parodia-michal-aniol-flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 10:17 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  http://wkbn.com/2017/08/04/excessive-for...ump-rally/

I wonder if they'll be fired?

Lol.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 08:25 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't make the rules.

What's your opinion on them then? Do you think individuals who belong to the police force, works to impose securite and conduct arrests and that are in police uniforms (thus completly impossible to differentiate from a police officer on duty) should not be held responsible for their conduct during those arrests and should be relieved of the rules surrouding the usage of force on citizen? In other words, should cops who are privatly contracted be subjected to lower standards of ethic than cops than their peers in public service even if htey provide the same services.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 12:14 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 08:25 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I don't make the rules.

What's your opinion on them then? Do you think individuals who belong to the police force, works to impose securite and conduct arrests and that are in police uniforms (thus completly impossible to differentiate from a police officer on duty) should not be held responsible for their conduct during those arrests and should be relieved of the rules surrouding the usage of force on citizen? In other words, should cops who are privatly contracted be subjected to lower standards of ethic than cops than their peers in public service even if htey provide the same services.

Honestly it never made much sense to me. But I wasn't going to turn down the money. I remember the first time I heard about the program during my check ride training. The money got filtered through the police department and came on our paycheck, but the hours didn't count towards police OT. For example, lets say I work 8 hours on patrol on Monday. At the conclusion of my shift, I go work 4 hours "off the clock" outside a nightclub, in uniform. If I work 8 hours each day Tue, wed, thur and fri, I'm still only at 40 hours. I'll get paid the 4 hours at the nightclub separate. I can't collect 4 hours of overtime for the last 4 hours of my Friday shift even though I've worked 44 hours total. It never made much sense to me how even though we're in uniform, with our badge and gun, we weren't technically on the clock so police rules didn't fully apply. I'll give an example to better illustrate what I mean. On duty, during an arrest, we were required to use certain techniques, arm bars takedowns etc. However if I was off duty and saw a crime being commited, I could use any technique a normal citizen without training would use. If you saw a rape being committed and had no formal police training, you could by law, kick the guys ass, choke him out, do anything to hold him until the cops showed up. Its no different for an off duty cop.

Here's another example. A cop friend of mine got into a heated argument with his wife. She was very intoxicated. She was screaming in his face, pushing him a bit. He pushed her with one arm out of his way and left the house. After the on duty cops showed up, they decided to arrest him, and wrote in the report that as a trained cop, he should have known how to de-escalate the situation and calm down a drunk person. The judge and prosecutor tossed the charge at his arraignment, saying he had no duty to use his police training off duty.

It's confusing especially when an "off duty" cop is allowed to do police/security type work in uniform. And to throw in another wrench, yes you can get charged for assaulting a police officer in uniform even if he's off duty. This is why the unions demand that off duty police side jobs be allowed the wearing of the police uniform. It protects the cops from assaults (mostly) and acts as a deterrence to crime.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Lord Dark Helmet's post
11-08-2017, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 03:19 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 12:47 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Honestly it never made much sense to me. But I wasn't going to turn down the money. I remember the first time I heard about the program during my check ride training. The money got filtered through the police department and came on our paycheck, but the hours didn't count towards police OT. For example, lets say I work 8 hours on patrol on Monday. At the conclusion of my shift, I go work 4 hours "off the clock" outside a nightclub, in uniform. If I work 8 hours each day Tue, wed, thur and fri, I'm still only at 40 hours. I'll get paid the 4 hours at the nightclub separate. I can't collect 4 hours of overtime for the last 4 hours of my Friday shift even though I've worked 44 hours total. It never made much sense to me how even though we're in uniform, with our badge and gun, we weren't technically on the clock so police rules didn't fully apply.

It's confusing especially when an "off duty" cop is allowed to do police/security type work in uniform. And to throw in another wrench, yes you can get charged for assaulting a police officer in uniform even if he's off duty. This is why the unions demand that off duty police side jobs be allowed the wearing of the police uniform. It protects the cops from assaults (mostly) and acts as a deterrence to crime.

That's also what I found so strange and potentially dangerous is that when you see a police officer you expect him or her to behave and respond like a police officer. This system makes mercenaries out of police officers. I'm pretty sure that most people outside of the service are completly unaware of such practice and have little to no way to make the difference between a cop on official duty and another acting as some sort of mercenary.

(11-08-2017 12:47 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I'll give an example to better illustrate what I mean. On duty, during an arrest, we were required to use certain techniques, arm bars takedowns etc. However if I was off duty and saw a crime being commited, I could use any technique a normal citizen without training would use. If you saw a rape being committed and had no formal police training, you could by law, kick the guys ass, choke him out, do anything to hold him until the cops showed up. Its no different for an off duty cop.

Here's another example. A cop friend of mine got into a heated argument with his wife. She was very intoxicated. She was screaming in his face, pushing him a bit. He pushed her with one arm out of his way and left the house. After the on duty cops showed up, they decided to arrest him, and wrote in the report that as a trained cop, he should have known how to de-escalate the situation and calm down a drunk person. The judge and prosecutor tossed the charge at his arraignment, saying he had no duty to use his police training off duty.

I find this to be extremely problematic. It's like giving the right for trained people to abuse their skills or be willfully lazy at the expense of other people safety. To me, it's a form of attack on personnal responsability. Skills aren't an a ''on and off'' switch, they are there and they exist. A person with problem solving skills or combat skills should be expected to use them fully should he or she happen to need them during his or her civilian life. If I am trained and armed should I not attempt to help someone who is attacked? I don't know about you but if a police officer with extansive weapon training decided to ''ditch'' his training aside and fire his weapon like an idiot instead of in a controlled way because he wasn't on duty, I would not trust that person.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes epronovost's post
11-08-2017, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 02:56 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 08:11 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  A lot of times these cops are off duty and being paid privately so department use of force rules don't fully apply.

If the police department rules of force don't apply then it would seem like the civilian rules of force would apply, in that case the cop would've been guilty of assault and battery. I've been bounced from a few bars before and all of the bouncers I refused to comply with knew better than to lay a hand on me. They called the cops and we waited together at which point I got to go downtown again and get to see the magistrate. Good times. What rules of engagement do you think apply if the police department rules don't apply? ... wait, you live in Arpaio AZ, never mind.

(11-08-2017 08:25 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  We'd just grab drunks or rowdy people and drag them to a back room like a bouncer.

Your bouncers would be arrested and sued in MD.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 02:55 PM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(11-08-2017 09:23 AM)morondog Wrote:  So a uniformed cop is OK to assault someone, as long as it's a private event. Good to know. Also fun that you seem to have that portion of the rules memorised, but not the bit about not assaulting people in custody. You've been reading to see what you can get away with.

He lives in the middle of the desert, the whole goddam State suffers from heat stroke induced dementia.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
(09-08-2017 10:02 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Tells you something about how AmeriKa works these days.

What's really tragic is not the fate of young HOPEless - he probably had a pretty good idea what really happens to Daniel in the lion's den - but the fact that most Americans seem perfectly complacent about their abusive police. It's like they've stopped caring about civil rights altogether. Or given up.

It's worse than complacent, it's callous. The smiling happy face of the fatass bubba in the skull T-shirt at the end says it all.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-08-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: Protester Video - what do you think
Next stop-
Kent State version 2.0

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

[Image: parodia-michal-aniol-flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: