Protesters take to the streets
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16-11-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 11:21 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 10:44 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I wonder how long it will take people to realize that Donald Trump isn't really president elect? He's a puppet line reader for the old guard republican establishment. He's surrounded himself with people who never got a shot at the WhiteHouse because they were but now all batshit crazy.


But now they believe they get to run the show. There's a very good reason why Newt, Giuliani, Christie, et al, were elected to begin with. Now they've slid into power through the back door.

They'll self destruct. Christie is already sliding out the door.

Well, that seems to be more retribution than anything else. He threw trump's son in law's father in prison for two years. His son in law has much larger voice. Trump kept him around for as long as he needed him. No huge surprise.

But....transition teams are often troublesome anyway. But...Trump isn't doing anything. He will leave it all to the people he believes know more than he.

And that's just about anyone.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-11-2016, 11:50 AM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 01:22 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: Protesters take to the streets
There are a few points I want to respond to, but who the hell has the time to quote like 5 or 6 different posts?

To the folks who claim the rioters are not liberals: Using a proper definition of what it means to be liberal, yes, I agree, most people on the left are not definition liberals anymore, they don't want freedom, they don't want free markets, they are cry-bully socialists/neo-Marxists...but they have successefully hijacked the political label of "Liberal". At some point the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy applies here people. If you consider yourself a liberal of the classical definition and call yourself a Democrat, what are you doing? You're party left you a long time ago. Time to go independent. Fuck political parties, they suck. Besides, using the dichotomy (which is severely flawed)...how many people in those riots you think call themselves "conservative" or "republican"? Not many, if any. That's why I distinguish myself as a classical liberal or libertarian (lower-case). The term "liberal" has been poisoned in the US. The third-wave feminists did the same thing to the term "feminist". It's why most younger people who seriously seek to advocate for women's rights have abandoned the term, and in lieu use terms like 'humanist' or 'egalitarian' . There is a dwindling number of feminists who give a shit about real women's issues.

To those comparing the protesters of Obama to the rioters of Trump...you're fooling yourself or being dishonest. Saying mean things is quite a bit different from attacking people, burning cities, smashing cars, etc. Besides that, even if they have been peaceful protests (they haven't), what happened to "They go low, we go high!"?

As for Steven Bannon - yeah, it appears as if he is a nasty asshole. I don't go to the mainstream media for my news when I want to check for veracity, because they are well-organized dishonest assholes. If you don't know how ugly they are then you haven't been paying attention this election cycle. I think the best source I found for Steve Bannon's character assessment is conservative personality Ben Shapiro, whom I respect and consider honest (though I don't agree with everything he says). Ben worked for Steve for years, he is a Never Trumper, who is still criticizing Trump heavily, didn't vote for him, and generally dislikes him...a lot. He also happens to be a practicing Jew who wears his Yamaka everywhere and talks about his faith quite openly. Ben says Bannon is a vindictive control freak, asshole, and a very bad choice for a cabinet position...he also says that he attracted white nationalists to Breitbart intentionally...but he goes on to say he never heard Bannon say anything racist or anti-Semitic while working for him for many years. So...what to make of this? I think he probably "used" racists for profit. Is he racist? Ben doesn't feel comfortable saying so, but even if that were true, he might be worse than a run-of-the-mill "I'm scared of brown people" racist. He is a politician willing to associate with anyone or use any means to achieve power...that's my guess anyhow.

And for those of you who are still clinging on the this Trump Nazi fantasy Rolleyes

Alright people, bring on the hate!

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16-11-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 11:50 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  There are a few points I want to respond to, but who the hell has the time to quote like 5 or 6 different posts?

To the folks who claim the rioters are not liberals: Using a proper definition of what it means to be liberal, yes, I agree, most people on the left are not definition liberals anymore, they don't want freedom, they don't want free markets, they are cry-bully socialists/neo-Marxists...but they have successefully hijacked the political label of "Liberal". At some point the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy applies here people. If you consider yourself of liberal of the classical definition and call yourself a Demorat, what are you doing? You're party left you a long time ago. Time to go independent. Fuck political parties, they suck. Besides, using the dichotomy (which is severly flawed)...how many people in those riots you think call themselves "conservative" or "republican"? Not many, if any. That's why I distinguish myself as a classical liberal or libertarian (lower-case). The term "liberal" has been poisoned in the US. The third-wave feminists did the same thing to the term "feminist". It's why most younger people who seriously seek to advocate for women's rights have abandoned the phrase in lieu of terms like 'humanist' or 'egalitarian' . There is a dwindling number of feminists who give a shit about real women's issues.

To those comparing the protesters of Obama to the rioters of Trump...you're fooling yourself or being dishonest. Saying mean things is quite a bit different from attacking people, burning cities, smashing cars, etc. Besides that, even if they have been peaceful protests (they haven't), what happened to "They go low, we go high!"?

As for Steven Bannon - yeah, it appears as if he is a nasty asshole. I don't go to the mainstream media for my news when I want to check for veracity, because they are well-organized dishonest assholes. If you don't know how ugly they are then you haven't been paying attention this election cycle. I think the best source I found for Steve Bannon's character assessment is conservative personality Ben Shapiro, whom I respect and consider honest (though I don't agree with everything he says). Ben worked for Steve for years, he is a Never Trumper, who is still criticizing Trump heavily, didn't vote for him, and generally dislikes him...a lot. He also happens to be a practicing Jew who wears his Yamaka everywhere and talks about his faith quite openly. Ben says Bannon is a vindictive control freak, asshole, and a very bad choice for a cabinet position...he also says that he attracted white nationalists to Breitbart intentionally...but he goes on to say he never heard Bannon say anything racist or anti-Semitic while working for him for many years. So...what to make of this? I think he probably "used" racists for profit. Is he racist? Ben doesn't feel comfortable saying so, but even if that were true, he might be worse than a run-of-the-mill "I'm scared of brown people" racist. He is a politician willing to associate with anyone or use any means to achieve power...that's my guess anyhow.

And for those of you who are still clinging on the this Trump Nazi fantasy Rolleyes

Alright people, bring on the hate!

No hate....

I find that it's specifically what people say, but what they refuse to say that's far more telling.

Many years ago, at a holiday party, someone made an off joke, it fell flat -- but I find people tend to use humor as a way of feeling out the group they're conversing with.

What was surprising to me was that while disgust registered on their faces, no one said anything, except for one person. Who basically just said, "not cool,".

As an ardent people watcher I've seen this play out many times but more often than not, no one says a word. It always seem to embolden a few. The "I've got a few token black friends and they all tell me I'm not racist." crowd, who actually struggle internally with their own brand of "I'm not a racist," racism.

Bannon and to a large degree Trump, might not believe they are the least bit racist or whatever, but the silence instead to call out and denounce those who openly are is troublesome.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-11-2016, 12:38 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 12:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-11-2016 11:50 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  There are a few points I want to respond to, but who the hell has the time to quote like 5 or 6 different posts?

To the folks who claim the rioters are not liberals: Using a proper definition of what it means to be liberal, yes, I agree, most people on the left are not definition liberals anymore, they don't want freedom, they don't want free markets, they are cry-bully socialists/neo-Marxists...but they have successefully hijacked the political label of "Liberal". At some point the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy applies here people. If you consider yourself of liberal of the classical definition and call yourself a Demorat, what are you doing? You're party left you a long time ago. Time to go independent. Fuck political parties, they suck. Besides, using the dichotomy (which is severly flawed)...how many people in those riots you think call themselves "conservative" or "republican"? Not many, if any. That's why I distinguish myself as a classical liberal or libertarian (lower-case). The term "liberal" has been poisoned in the US. The third-wave feminists did the same thing to the term "feminist". It's why most younger people who seriously seek to advocate for women's rights have abandoned the phrase in lieu of terms like 'humanist' or 'egalitarian' . There is a dwindling number of feminists who give a shit about real women's issues.

To those comparing the protesters of Obama to the rioters of Trump...you're fooling yourself or being dishonest. Saying mean things is quite a bit different from attacking people, burning cities, smashing cars, etc. Besides that, even if they have been peaceful protests (they haven't), what happened to "They go low, we go high!"?

As for Steven Bannon - yeah, it appears as if he is a nasty asshole. I don't go to the mainstream media for my news when I want to check for veracity, because they are well-organized dishonest assholes. If you don't know how ugly they are then you haven't been paying attention this election cycle. I think the best source I found for Steve Bannon's character assessment is conservative personality Ben Shapiro, whom I respect and consider honest (though I don't agree with everything he says). Ben worked for Steve for years, he is a Never Trumper, who is still criticizing Trump heavily, didn't vote for him, and generally dislikes him...a lot. He also happens to be a practicing Jew who wears his Yamaka everywhere and talks about his faith quite openly. Ben says Bannon is a vindictive control freak, asshole, and a very bad choice for a cabinet position...he also says that he attracted white nationalists to Breitbart intentionally...but he goes on to say he never heard Bannon say anything racist or anti-Semitic while working for him for many years. So...what to make of this? I think he probably "used" racists for profit. Is he racist? Ben doesn't feel comfortable saying so, but even if that were true, he might be worse than a run-of-the-mill "I'm scared of brown people" racist. He is a politician willing to associate with anyone or use any means to achieve power...that's my guess anyhow.

And for those of you who are still clinging on the this Trump Nazi fantasy Rolleyes

Alright people, bring on the hate!

No hate....

I find that it's specifically what people say, but what they refuse to say that's far more telling.

Many years ago, at a holiday party, someone made an off joke, it fell flat -- but I find people tend to use humor as a way of feeling out the group they're conversing with.

What was surprising to me was that while disgust registered on their faces, no one said anything, except for one person. Who basically just said, "not cool,".

As an ardent people watcher I've seen this play out many times but more often than not, no one says a word. It always seem to embolden a few. The "I've got a few token black friends and they all tell me I'm not racist." crowd, who actually struggle internally with their own brand of "I'm not a racist," racism.

Bannon and to a large degree Trump, might not believe they are the least bit racist or whatever, but the silence instead to call out and denounce those who openly are is troublesome.

Oh, I absolutely think Trump is subvertly racist. I believe that he probably believes he isn't racist. But then people have different versions of definitions of race and racism, but I don't want to get to deep in the weeds here... As for Bannon, he very well may be racist, but I'm not as familiar with him. I just stated my opinion so far based on what I consider to be the most reliable source of information readily available (based on a few minute of research and watching a couple of videos). Presented with more information I am absolutely open to the possibility that he is an outright racist, but there are things worse than someone who fears someone of another color, for example. There is a huge gradation of racism. I think the type of person Bannon is is already worse than someone who privately thinks there is a Jewish cabal of Zionist pigs plotting against him, but doesn't act on those thoughts, for example. There is some nuance to be had.

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16-11-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
Here's yet another thing that will have more people protecting


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/pol...tices.html


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-11-2016, 04:23 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2016 04:27 PM by Chas.)
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 10:36 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 03:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  A group of so-called 'liberals' surrounding a lone man and cracking his head open, breaking his nose, and sending him to the hospital for holding the 'wrong' political positions not a sign a strength, it is a sign of weakness. It's also a direct attack on the most important liberty we have, freedom of speech. You'd think that liberals would want liberties protected. Silencing dissidents through violent intimidation is the very thing many claim to fear, after all. Any group of assholes can cause harm. That doesn't vindicate them, it vindicates their opponent. I'd much rather be thought of as a smelly hippie that's weak than a mindless horde of violent oppressors. This is not something to be lauded.

Of course, protecting your home from robbers by using a firearm is not what I am addressing, as it wasn't the topic at hand, and something with which I find no fault.

edit: Since I believe there has been some communication issues between us, let me state clearly that I am not saying you support these violent incidents that are happening. This is just me making a point about those who are engaging in or supporting this type of behavior

Maybe they're not "liberal" but just assholes? Meanwhile this shit is going on.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016...n-election






The answer is Trump.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-11-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
Let's not kid ourselves. This guy is a grade A++ douchebag. These are articles from Breitbart. And before anyone says he didn't write them, he approves this content, don't forget that. This goes beyond 'opinion' and news, this is clickbait (or as I call it, HATEbait) of the most assholish caliber.

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16-11-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 11:50 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  To those comparing the protesters of Obama to the rioters of Trump...you're fooling yourself or being dishonest. Saying mean things is quite a bit different from attacking people, burning cities, smashing cars, etc.

He who cranks the hatred, anger and divisiveness dial all the way to 11 does not get to whine about it when the that's exactly what he gets.

Kindly check your hyerbole. Last I looked the majority of the protests were peaceful, Portland being the exception. And yes, that is stoopid in the extreme.

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16-11-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 05:26 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Last I looked the majority of the protests were peaceful, Portland being the exception. And yes, that is stoopid in the extreme.

It's embarrassing. Weeping


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-11-2016, 05:30 PM
RE: Protesters take to the streets
(16-11-2016 10:49 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 03:34 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  A group of so-called 'liberals' surrounding a lone man and cracking his head open, breaking his nose, and sending him to the hospital for holding the 'wrong' political positions not a sign a strength, it is a sign of weakness. It's also a direct attack on the most important liberty we have, freedom of speech. You'd think that liberals would want liberties protected. Silencing dissidents through violent intimidation is the very thing many claim to fear, after all. Any group of assholes can cause harm. That doesn't vindicate them, it vindicates their opponent. I'd much rather be thought of as a smelly hippie that's weak than a mindless horde of violent oppressors. This is not something to be lauded.

Of course, protecting your home from robbers by using a firearm is not what I am addressing, as it wasn't the topic at hand, and something with which I find no fault.

edit: Since I believe there has been some communication issues between us, let me state clearly that I am not saying you support these violent incidents that are happening. This is just me making a point about those who are engaging in or supporting this type of behavior

I was addressing Mom’s point that conservatives view liberals as vegan flower children without backbone that only want to hold hands and sing kumbaya. My opinion is that when necessary many of us self-described liberals aren’t the pushovers conservatives think we are.

I have said in other threads, maybe even earlier in this one, that the minute you resort to gratuitous violence you have lost the moral high ground and my support.

Your point is valid, it just wasn’t the one I was making or condoning.

The car smashing and violence here in Portland was undertaken by the crazy anarchists who came in from the outside and disrupted everything. The majority of the protestors were nonviolent and simply people very concerned for this country and as a matter of fact several of the "non-anarchist" protesters came back the next day and helped clean up the mess. A gofundme account was set up by the main protesting group to help pay for the damage. It's probably not enough but it shows that the majority of the protesters were ok people. I know several people involved and they are really decent, nice folks who just don't want to sit back and become complacent about the trump presidency.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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