Protests and Prayer
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05-05-2017, 08:24 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 06:27 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When you hear someone tout "the power of prayer" because ," we prayed for "x" and "x" happened", do you find that legitimate evidence?

I don't. The claim lacks the needed level of scientific proof and methodology. What's your double blind study??? Where' s your control group?? Is it repeatable???

Not so much, huh??

So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about the "results" of protests.

As far as I can tell, both are examples of doing nothing, and expecting something.


Edit to add - to clarify - "protest" refers to the marching and sign waving variety....

Worked pretty good in pressuring Nixon out of Southeast Asia in '73.

#sigh
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05-05-2017, 08:28 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
Let's look at Vietnam.

A million or more SE Asians murdered. 55,000 or so Americans also dead.

What did the anti-war movement accomplish exactly?
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05-05-2017, 08:37 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 08:28 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Let's look at Vietnam.

A million or more SE Asians murdered. 55,000 or so Americans also dead.

What did the anti-war movement accomplish exactly?

Got us out before even more people were killed.

#sigh
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05-05-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
lol

That's great.
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05-05-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 08:20 AM)ImFred Wrote:  People can go as ballistic as they want about it and hurl ignorant and unnecessary comments at onlinebiker but if you really want change you should be open to what he's saying. To say unequivocally it's not worth considering (or much worse, even personal attacks) says to me you may be afraid to look at the possibility that all your political efforts are a useless waste of time. Why shouldn't that at least be open for examination?

(05-05-2017 08:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-05-2017 06:27 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When you hear someone tout "the power of prayer" because ," we prayed for "x" and "x" happened", do you find that legitimate evidence?

I don't. The claim lacks the needed level of scientific proof and methodology. What's your double blind study??? Where' s your control group?? Is it repeatable???

Not so much, huh??

So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about the "results" of protests.

As far as I can tell, both are examples of doing nothing, and expecting something.


Edit to add - to clarify - "protest" refers to the marching and sign waving variety....

Worked pretty good in pressuring Nixon out of Southeast Asia in '73.

So you think we'd still be there in Vietnam without protests???

And...

Has there been no protests against our involvement in Afghanistan??? We are still there, you know.....


The Soviets left Afghanistan, and I don't recall massive anti-war protests in Moscow.

So Is it just like prayer- and only works if it's "his will"????

....

And hint to Brian - " fuck you, you poopyhead" isn't generally considered a cognizant counterargument....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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05-05-2017, 09:11 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 08:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(05-05-2017 08:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Worked pretty good in pressuring Nixon out of Southeast Asia in '73.

So you think we'd still be there in Vietnam without protests???

We would have been there longer than we were.

(05-05-2017 08:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And...

Has there been no protests against our involvement in Afghanistan??? We are still there, you know.....

Not many that I've read about. At least nothing like the protests back in the day.

(05-05-2017 08:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The Soviets left Afghanistan, and I don't recall massive anti-war protests in Moscow.

That's not a very good comparison given that Russia ain't big fans of tolerating protests. Ask Pussy Riot for clarification if you need it.

(05-05-2017 08:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  So Is it just like prayer- and only works if it's "his will"????

I don't see your comparison of protest with prayer as being apt. One has demonstrable evidence showing its efficacy and the other does not.

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05-05-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 06:27 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  When you hear someone tout "the power of prayer" because ," we prayed for "x" and "x" happened", do you find that legitimate evidence...

So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about the "results" of protests...

As far as I can tell, both are examples of doing nothing, and expecting something...

Sorry, but you're illogically conflating "prayer" with "protest". They're two entirely different things. We all know that praying to a supernatural entity is pointless and that prayer has never achieved even one of its proposed goals in thousands of years.

On the other hand, protests—globally—have often contributed to major changes in laws and legislation, changes in government, overthrows of despotic juntas, the cessation of civil wars, the relief of avoidable childhood deaths, consideration of climate change and emission controls, the humane treatment of food animals, biological security and pharmaceutical safety, asylum seeker resettlement... the list goes on.

One of the most recent, successful (and against massive odds I should add) public protests where I live in Victoria, Australia, has been the legislated, permanent banning of fracking throughout our state.

And remember too the (at least partially successful) anti-Vietnam war protests. US security adviser McGeorge Bundy, along with the so-called Wise Men agreed that America could no longer do the job it set out to do in the time-frame envisaged by the American public. Consequently, in March 1968 LBJ—citing "division in the American house"—announced a halt to the bombing that he hoped could lead to negotiations with the North Vietnamese.

The war-mongering LBJ also asserted that he would no longer seek re-election as POTUS. (Richard M Nixon walked it in.) Most of this was due to the antiwar movement. The mass burning of draft cards, coupled with marches on the Pentagon therefore affected policymakers both directly and indirectly. Nixon subsequently declared a process of "peace with honour" in an attempt to end the war—which he later dishonoured, regardless.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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05-05-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 08:53 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(05-05-2017 08:20 AM)ImFred Wrote:  People can go as ballistic as they want about it and hurl ignorant and unnecessary comments at onlinebiker but if you really want change you should be open to what he's saying. To say unequivocally it's not worth considering (or much worse, even personal attacks) says to me you may be afraid to look at the possibility that all your political efforts are a useless waste of time. Why shouldn't that at least be open for examination?

(05-05-2017 08:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Worked pretty good in pressuring Nixon out of Southeast Asia in '73.

So you think we'd still be there in Vietnam without protests???

And...

Has there been no protests against our involvement in Afghanistan??? We are still there, you know.....


The Soviets left Afghanistan, and I don't recall massive anti-war protests in Moscow.

So Is it just like prayer- and only works if it's "his will"????

....

And hint to Brian - " fuck you, you poopyhead" isn't generally considered a cognizant counterargument....

You, "Protests don't work" and tried to equate them to prayer.

Yea and again, that is why segregation is still here right? Protests don't work which is why women are still not allowed to vote.

FUCK YOU is extremely apt. Now ask me if I give a shit.

Protests work. Prayer doesn't. You were stupid to even try to compare the two.

Sorry you don't like me calling bullshit, bullshit. That is your baggage.

"Poopyhead" is what you respond in a bullshit attempt to be a condescending brat. I called you out, you didn't like it. TOO BAD.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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05-05-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
Yabbut, I love the word "poopyhead"! Tongue

Biker says that we don't have a prayer in hell and we might as well just put our hands in our laps and wait for shit to happen.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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06-05-2017, 10:08 AM
RE: Protests and Prayer
(05-05-2017 06:27 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I don't. The claim lacks the needed level of scientific proof and methodology. What's your double blind study??? Where' s your control group?? Is it repeatable???

If I were writing a scientific paper on the matter you would be right. In most other cases our society accepts less rigorous forms of evidence.

Quote:So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about the "results" of protests.

As far as I can tell, both are examples of doing nothing, and expecting something.

Protests - "Doing nothing" but still more effective than prayer.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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