Proving God existence
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02-09-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Proving God existence
The fact that I walk the same earth as these two (Muslim and diddo) is sad, disheartening, and flat out pisses me off!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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02-09-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 08:49 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
Quote:When Einstein created the theory of general relativity it was a concept he proved with math. The scientific community was all in a buzz because the concept was spot on correct. But they waited until the eclipse came to actually prove (Demonstrate) that the theory of general relativity was correct.
Actually I believe that Einstein made a big mistake in assuming that the 4th dimension is time, It is not!
Assuming that, opened the door for wrong ideas like time travel and that crap
The 4th dimension is something related to distance not time (in full)

Well, that pretty much demonstrates beyond all doubt the depth of your self-absorbed ignorance.

Hint: spacetime is four-dimensional. That's what we might call a fact. Not that you have more than the vaguest passing familiarity with the concept...

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02-09-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 09:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Spacetime is four-dimensional. That's what we might call a fact. Not that you have more than the vaguest passing familiarity with the concept...
My next book will be "Corrections to the theory of relativity"

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02-09-2014, 09:09 AM
RE: Proving God existence
Quote:Nothing can be more realistic than this proof, I don't only think that this proof is irrefutable, I think it is more valid than any other scientific theory in the world

I'll give you a small challenge, give any other theory or proof that you think it is stronger than this proof?

We are talking past each other here. You actually have no proof. They already refuted your argument as not valid. It's over now, you lose at this point and you go away. That's how it works. You played the game, they scored, you didn't, they win.

Simply stating its irrefutable doesn't make it so.

I can't give a theory that is stronger proof than a non proof because you actually don't have proof. I don't need a proof to disprove a non proof.

They gave you your chance to present an argument and you lost. Goodbye
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02-09-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Proving God existence
What is the 4th dimension then? How would we use or even begin to describe a 4th space dimension? We already have the X Y and Z axis to describe an objects relative position in space.

Additionally, because there is a time dimension of space time does not implicate that there are ways to go backwards in time.

Speaking of which: Muslim, do you believe your God is a so-called timeless agent?
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02-09-2014, 09:34 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 12:20 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 08:29 PM)PaulPablo Wrote:  I'll give you the same reply I gave you on the other forum which that you previously said something cannot come from nothing, so therefore god didn't create everything he just manipulated something which was already there.
It is not very clear in islamic texts that God created the universe out of nothing, however there are a few texts that God created everything from Water; What is this water? we don't know?

Quote:And furthermore what is mentioned in the quran is that god is the originator and he did create things from nothing.
I don't recall any verse stating that!
I think it is just a human effort to explain Quran

Quote:And if god did just manipulate something that was already there then there is no explanation as to where that thing came from.
Logic mandates that this thing didn't come from anywhere; same like the creator

Quote:Also I assume if god was once outside of time and space this hasn't always been the case since the quran says god created things in certain amounts of time.
Yes, if you read the proof details;
I didn't use the full definition of time, I considered only time as a relation between 2 events
So God was outside time before creating the universe (space/time); but right after the first creation (the big bang), his actions are within time

Also note that: As the creator is outside the universe, many things will remain unknown to us, but this doesn't affect the proof, you don't need to know/understand everything about God to know that he exists

In the thread on the last forum you never provided one Islamic text which said god created everything from water.

Also the proof doesn't seem to work if god has to have a will power in order to create the universe.
If god needs to be able to plan in order to create there would be no time in which he could plan to make his first action before time began, without time there could be no planning.
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02-09-2014, 09:35 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(01-09-2014 02:11 PM)Muslim Wrote:  2- As the Universe had a beginning, a starter must initiated/created it
this is done by mapping the universe and existence into an equation that varies with time, then taking its limit at time =0
Or in simple words, the universe cannot start/change from nothing (or a static form) by nothing
Which leads to a creator who had a decision and power to create/start the universe (A deity)


3-The above mandates some attributes for this deity; which are:
Outside space/time
Single
One entity
Unique
Powerful
Creator
Planner (intelligent)
in-materialistic
Has no image or photo
No more attributes can be known or understood about him using logic alone
because he is outside/separate from the universe and not like anything we observe or know

This has been refuted here many times.

If you're willing to accept the existence of things that can exist outside of time to cause the start of time, how do you know that the universe doesn't exist outside of time?

You're trying to set things up in such a way that they both don't look like special pleading and that would prove your god, but there are countless ways to answer the question you're raising. You just like this one particular answer because it points to the god you already believe in.
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02-09-2014, 09:57 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 09:02 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 09:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Spacetime is four-dimensional. That's what we might call a fact. Not that you have more than the vaguest passing familiarity with the concept...
My next book will be "Corrections to the theory of relativity"

Congratulations in advance on your Nobel Prize. Refutation of general relativity will earn you nothing less.

On what testable predictions do you base your overturning of 90 years of physics? What anomalies in present data and models do you address?

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02-09-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 12:33 AM)Muslim Wrote:  You are like a dog barking in the dessert Tongue

Isn't the dog more likely to eat the dessert?

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02-09-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Proving God existence
(02-09-2014 01:08 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 01:04 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Almost everything you comment on lately you fail to grasp every single damn bit of content.
Thank you, you are a very good example of a "Blind Atheist"
You are typical to Christians
Whatever is said, they just say, Jesus is God

You know your religion retards the human race where ever it spreads right?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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