Proving a negative?
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20-07-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Proving a negative?
The dog didn't bark.

#sigh
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21-07-2016, 01:45 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
"The world is full of pots jeering at kettles"
Francois de La Rochefoucauld

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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21-07-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
I am an atheist and I do not believe in the existence of gods—because they do not exist.

I have no need to "prove" this, in exactly the same way I have no need to prove the non-existence of leprechauns.

Try asking a theist to prove that the little green gnomes don't exist and watch them stutter and stumble. Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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21-07-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
(20-07-2016 01:19 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I was having an online discussion with a theist who insisted that the claim that a god doesn't exist is actually a positive claim to which I replied that atheists have no belief in a god which is neutral or the default position to which he replied that the default position is a claim itself, and a positive claim at that.

I think there's a couple of problems here.

One, some atheists will define their positions as a mere lack of belief. While others would say they believe that God doesn't exist.

A view, or belief, that something does not exist, is a positive claim. Where as a mere lack of belief, such as my lack a belief in regards to what part of the country your from, is not.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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21-07-2016, 09:15 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
"the claim that a god doesn't exist is actually a positive claim"

Well, it is.

So don't make it. I mean, making the claim is harmless; Just as it would be for the claim that unicorns don't exist. But in an argument with a theist they will use it against you. As they should.
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21-07-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
(20-07-2016 01:19 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I was having an online discussion with a theist who insisted that the claim that a god doesn't exist is actually a positive claim to which I replied that atheists have no belief in a god which is neutral or the default position to which he replied that the default position is a claim itself, and a positive claim at that.

The default position for any belief/concept/idea has to be non-belief.

You cannot hold a positive belief in something that you are not aware of.

Once a person becomes aware of a belief/concept/idea, they begin to decide, subconsciously sometimes, whether or not they believe/accept it.

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21-07-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
(21-07-2016 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  One, some atheists will define their positions as a mere lack of belief. While others would say they believe that God doesn't exist.
Nope. You're just playing with semantics. No differences.

Quote:A view, or belief, that something does not exist, is a positive claim.
And no again. You don't seem to understand the differences between positive and negative. A claim that gods do exist is a positive claim. A claim that gods do not exist is a negative claim. In these cases "god" is the subject, and not the claim itself.

Quote:Where as a mere lack of belief, such as my lack a belief in regards to what part of the country your from, is not.
What? Please post grammatically-correct English. Hobo

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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21-07-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
(21-07-2016 10:01 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  One, some atheists will define their positions as a mere lack of belief. While others would say they believe that God doesn't exist.
Nope. You're just playing with semantics. No differences.

No, there is a difference.

A mere lack of belief would indicate that I hold no view one way or the other. Such as in regards to whether you're married or not. Or whether you have a neighbor named Fred.

Where as if I believed Fred your neighbor doesn't exist, I wouldn't be merely lacking a belief, but holding to belief that you have no such neighbor named Fred.

I don't merely lack a belief in Santa, the way I would say I lack a belief in what your marital status is. I believe Santa does not exist. I hold a positive claim in this regard.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-07-2016, 08:54 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
(21-07-2016 10:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  [...]
I believe Santa does not exist. I hold a positive claim in this regard.

Nope. That's a negative claim.

Again; a positive claim is an assertion that something does exist. A negative claim is an assertion that something does not exist.

When a theist claims that a god does exist, that's a positive claim. That person has taken the burden of proof upon themselves if he or she wishes to convince others who do not believe in this god—the default negative claim. It's not the burden of the negative claimer to disprove another person’s positive claim.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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22-07-2016, 09:39 AM
RE: Proving a negative?
"Prove any god or gods exist." Burden is on the claimant.
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