Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
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03-09-2012, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 06:26 PM by Diablo666.)
Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
I am absolutely sick of Pseudo-Journalism and Political lies in the US. It has really gotten out of hand. Its to the point that you can just straight up lie on stage giving a speech, and are complimented afterwards. Its sickening.

There needs to be some regulations in place to keep News organizations honest. They shouldn't be allowed to call their medium "news", if its actually just biased political agenda and outright lies. This also applies to a lesser extent to anything that is considered to any political opinion medium. They should be able to express their opinion with misinformation, deception, and outright lies.

Furthermore, any politician who endorses such actions should be immediately stricken from the ballot.

And for anyone who starts crying 1st amendment!!! Well you know what? FUCK the 1st amendment, and FUCK the constitution. Its a damn piece of paper written by white slave owners nearly three centuries ago. I promise you that you can rewrite it, and it only makes sense to do so over time. Guns are in a similar position. Can't we all just please agree that the constitution isn't some kind of a damn sacred text handed from god?

The media is the most important factor in the democratic process, and as of right now its utterly broken.
I am not saying to get rid of the first amendment, just alter it to include regulations on the media.
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03-09-2012, 06:00 PM
Exclamation RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
1st amendment!!! Big Grin

You can't get butt-hurt because someone has an opinion different from yours.

Fox News is probably more popular than CNN and MSNBC combined; tell them to step their games up. Fox is a very successful organization. You can't get pissed at them for doing what they do, and doing it well.

Or the AM talk radio shows. People agree with their opinions and tune in.

Get over it.

Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert each, individual, probably have more people watching their shows daily than Fox News has tuning in, so for every one person watching a lie on Fox News, there are one or two watching Comedy Central make fun of Fox's lies.

If you have an opinion, you should be happy that you live in a country that allows for your opinion to be presented freely and heard.

Yes, I agree that it would be nice if they were to be held accountable if they do lie, or are misleading, but there is no "FUCK the 1st amendment" in this. The first amendment is what we use in response to them being misleading, and everyone has a right to their opinions. You also can't act like they would be the only ones getting in trouble for false information, if organizations were regularly being held accountable.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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03-09-2012, 06:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 06:25 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
You are ignorantly combing the word opinion and lies. You can have a valid opinion without using lies and misinformation. In fact, when your opinion is based on fallacies, then its no longer valid, as its not based on reality.

We can use the 1st amendment when they lie? News to me, How?! As far as I can see the aristrocracy own the media, and they can do and say whatever the fuck they want.
We the people can't use it to do shit. Even if an unbiased network confronts another about its lies, it solves nothing, as the biased network just twists the truth even more. So what else? Protest? We have more than enough proof that protesting accomplished diddly shit in this country.

Also, Faux news ratings don't mean anything. I laugh at the thought that people think that ratings = truth. Yet, I have seen Faux news make that statement countless times, and the sheep follow along. They have better ratings because their broadcasts arent news, its entertaining brainwashing for the sheep. News is supposed to be boring! Their show is more like "professional wrestling" than news.

The media is the most important factor in the democratic process, and as of right now its utterly broken.
I am not saying to get rid of the first amendment, just alter it to include regulations on the media.
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03-09-2012, 10:38 PM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
(03-09-2012 03:23 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  I am absolutely sick of Pseudo-Journalism and Political lies in the US. It has really gotten out of hand. Its to the point that you can just straight up lie on stage giving a speech, and are complimented afterwards. Its sickening.

There needs to be some regulations in place to keep News organizations honest. They shouldn't be allowed to call their medium "news", if its actually just biased political agenda and outright lies. This also applies to a lesser extent to anything that is considered to any political opinion medium. They should be able to express their opinion with misinformation, deception, and outright lies.

Furthermore, any politician who endorses such actions should be immediately stricken from the ballot.

And for anyone who starts crying 1st amendment!!! Well you know what? FUCK the 1st amendment, and FUCK the constitution. Its a damn piece of paper written by white slave owners nearly three centuries ago. I promise you that you can rewrite it, and it only makes sense to do so over time. Guns are in a similar position. Can't we all just please agree that the constitution isn't some kind of a damn sacred text handed from god?

The media is the most important factor in the democratic process, and as of right now its utterly broken.
I am not saying to get rid of the first amendment, just alter it to include regulations on the media.


Absolutely a horrible idea. Beyond protections against slander, the media should be allowed to say whatever it wants. You don't have to listen. Opinion driven news has been around for centuries--faux neutrality was only a recent invention when the TV news controlled much of the media consumption through few outlets. The diversity of news outlets made possible by the internet has only increased our level of freedom.

The constitution has been amended numerous times and can be amended again. If the American people actually agreed with you, we would get the amendments to eviscerate the bill of rights. Thankfully the American people disagree with you.
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03-09-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
You basically already rip apart fact-checkers or unbiased sources because it just means that fibbers will take the info stretch out more myths.

I'm not sure what you would regulate to stop these types of actions. WHO or what service would be in charge or regulating this? Doesn't that insight more worry for you than having people be lied too. People lie to their family day in day out right to the face whether it's parents to children or teeangers to parents. It's just a matter of what you take as truth.

In nations that allow some strict regulations on what can be said in the media, things are not better at all. If there is a group that is regulating the information, you ought to have people checking up on their information just the same.

"Love is hot, Truth is molten!"
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04-09-2012, 09:16 AM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
(03-09-2012 06:20 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  You are ignorantly combing the word opinion and lies. You can have a valid opinion without using lies and misinformation. In fact, when your opinion is based on fallacies, then its no longer valid, as its not based on reality.

We can use the 1st amendment when they lie? News to me, How?! As far as I can see the aristrocracy own the media, and they can do and say whatever the fuck they want.
We the people can't use it to do shit. Even if an unbiased network confronts another about its lies, it solves nothing, as the biased network just twists the truth even more. So what else? Protest? We have more than enough proof that protesting accomplished diddly shit in this country.

Also, Faux news ratings don't mean anything. I laugh at the thought that people think that ratings = truth. Yet, I have seen Faux news make that statement countless times, and the sheep follow along. They have better ratings because their broadcasts arent news, its entertaining brainwashing for the sheep. News is supposed to be boring! Their show is more like "professional wrestling" than news.

The media is the most important factor in the democratic process, and as of right now its utterly broken.
I am not saying to get rid of the first amendment, just alter it to include regulations on the media.

It's all just a bias opinion that is often misleading, but the blatant lies, or just misinformation, in general, isn't as plentiful as you could be convinced that it is.

Like I said, any news organization, or outlet, would get in trouble for misinformation, if that is something that we wanted to regularly hold people accountable for. Most of Fox News is just bias opinion, however. It gives a "conservative" side of the story. It's often misleading, but there aren't as many lies as someone could lead you to think, and it's not like the viewers really care; it's not going to change anything about their opinions. A lot of the opinions are rooted in egoism, lack of proper education, different world views, religion, bigotry, and the like.

I'd rather have Fox News around to make it clear to me that there are a decent amount of Americans that hold that world view and opinion. I hold a different world view: I'm intelligent and educated enough to watch Fox and see them being misleading, notice the bias information, and I can notice lies, when they do happen. Some people, however, share that world view: they watch Fox News and all they see is their opinion being expressed, when on other news networks, their opinion really isn't there.

That's incredible for me to be able to see and understand. We are divided as a country, and we do have different opinions. That makes me enthusiastic about doing my part. Like Obama said: "Don't boo, VOTE".

We know what makes people likely to be "conservative" vs. "liberal", and we have a good idea about how these world views are shaped. Personally, I see education as a big factor, and exposure. I view religion and rejection of science as a big problem. To me, recognizing and changing the fundamental problems is all that's important. I could care less that there are "conservative" media outlets; I'm upset about the fact that there are a large number of Americans being represented by these opinions, but they'd hold these opinions regardless of Fox News.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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04-09-2012, 12:51 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2012 01:01 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
Pelople are dumb sheep, and they will believe what they are told. Do you think the Germans actually hated the jews? Well maybe a little, but not enough to commit genocide. Hitler convinced them to strongly hate them in order to unite the shattered country, under his command of course.

There was a study done recently that showed the more you hear something, the more you believe it to be true. Doesn't matter how factual or nonsensical it is either.
You can get people to believe anything with a little bit of effort.

Healthcare is a great example of this. There was overwhelmingly support for a public option from both sides, until the Faux News went to work.
Within a matter of weeks the public opinion of any healthcare reform skyrocketed down.

Controlling people with fear is easy, especially with Americans. Americans are the biggest pussies on the planet.

Hell look at Scientology ffs, or any other number of cults out there.
(03-09-2012 10:58 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You basically already rip apart fact-checkers or unbiased sources because it just means that fibbers will take the info stretch out more myths.

I'm not sure what you would regulate to stop these types of actions. WHO or what service would be in charge or regulating this? Doesn't that insight more worry for you than having people be lied too. People lie to their family day in day out right to the face whether it's parents to children or teeangers to parents. It's just a matter of what you take as truth.

In nations that allow some strict regulations on what can be said in the media, things are not better at all. If there is a group that is regulating the information, you ought to have people checking up on their information just the same.

A kid lying to his parents is completely different. This issue is not the lie, but who is telling the lies. The media is the most influential component in politics. Why do you think the candidates spend BILLIONS on campaign ads? If the news media can't be trusted, than the entire democratic process fails. Which is what we see today.

Who said anything about regulating information? This is not a slippery slope. What I am suggesting is no different than a govt employee walking up and checking out an oil well, or the foundation of your house.
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05-09-2012, 06:02 AM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
(04-09-2012 12:51 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Pelople are dumb sheep, and they will believe what they are told. Do you think the Germans actually hated the jews? Well maybe a little, but not enough to commit genocide.
Says who?

(04-09-2012 12:51 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  There was a study done recently that showed the more you hear something, the more you believe it to be true. Doesn't matter how factual or nonsensical it is either.
You can get people to believe anything with a little bit of effort.
Can you give me a link to that study you're talking about? Consider

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06-09-2012, 07:55 AM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
I mostly agree with the devil here, or at least to the point that anything that is called news should be held accountable to only speak the truth.

I did quite like the first couple of minutes of the relatively new show "the Newsroom" if anyone's seen it (or maybe you've even discussed it since I haven't been very active in the forum lately)?

You can see it here on youtube,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqOYBabXmA
or the slightly shorter, subtitled version here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hflXxgcJL...ure=fvwrel

I'd say that what he's talking about is a big problem. As a Swede I have had quite low respect for American news since the ruling (I think it was when Fox showed a documentary where they adjusted the facts) that news is entertainment and shouldn't have to contain truth.

I am also quite amazed (or maybe appaled is the correct word :-)) that the media don't care more about the candidates, the attack ads, the campaigns lies. Shouldn't that be headline news every day if that happened? It would be in Sweden... If the media finds out that a politician is lying that's the headlines in the news for a while. Not that this is perfect, it happens quite often that the media finds something small about a politician and makes it a lot bigger than it really is, as is normal with media...

I saw that the Romney campaign even admitted that facts are not important
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23...36139.html
but that link might be better suited in the fact-checker thread.

There, now I've gotten to write down some of the things I've gotten annoyed about lately, thanks and sorry for the ranting :-)
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08-09-2012, 08:10 PM
RE: Pseudo-Journalism & Political Lies
I am not sure what the story was about, but yes Faux News got caught lying and was taken to the supreme court. Their defense was not that their statements were true, because they weren't, but something to the key of "a news did not have an obligation to tell the truth".

They won of course due to the 1st amendment.

PS: I can't find the study. I read it months ago on Richard Dawkins website.
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