Psychology of guns
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28-10-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:14 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Sure. Also every women finds your comments extremally flattering and can't wait to hear them again Rolleyes.

Like I care what you think.

You hurt me soo much Rolleyes.

Good luck in being "nice".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-10-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
I do hear what JD is saying--and I think it can be confusing sometimes for nice men who are trying to legitimately offer a nice compliment to a woman.

In a rship, I love it when a boyfriend comments on my body, clothes, smile etc. But I have let him into my space and so his attentions in that way are wanted. A random dude on the street--his attention is not wanted and since I don't know him and can only go by past experiences with random men--I need to view him as a potential threat.
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28-10-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:24 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I do hear what JD is saying--and I think it can be confusing sometimes for nice men who are trying to legitimately offer a nice compliment to a woman.

It's better to just not do it. Me feelling all giddy cause I was so nice isn't reason enough to potentially make someone uncomfortable. Want to be nice? Help when someone is asking for help. Simple as that.

(28-10-2015 12:24 PM)jennybee Wrote:  In a rship, I love it when a boyfriend comments on my body, clothes, smile etc. But I have let him into my space and so his attentions in that way are wanted. A random dude on the street--his attention is not wanted and since I don't know him and can only go by past experiences with random men--I need to view him as a potential threat.

Exactly.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-10-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 11:56 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 09:04 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Spoilering because I'm still on the topic of pepper spray, which was already off topic to begin with, and now after being away for a couple hours it's gone in a completely different direction on top of that Tongue

Perhaps I was a bit over critical of pepper spray in an effort to make some random point Smile

I'm not at all against it, per say. If nothing else, the point I want to make is that it's not magic. Just as guns cannot guarantee your safety, neither can pepper spray or anything else for that matter. Just a couple more random thoughts before I move on.

• The infamous boot camp gas chamber... Yeah, it sucks. If I could compare the two, CS gas feels like a weaker form of pepper spray, but since you're in a confined space continually breathing it in it ends up sucking a lot more, but only while you're actually in there. Within a minute or two after stepping out of the chamber, you're pretty much good to go. When I went through, I was able to follow the commands they were giving, but I was puking all over the place while I was doing it. Good times Laugh out load

• Here are the contexts in which I've encountered pepper spray, and what I can share based on those experiences to those who want to use it as a possible defensive tool. Sorry if it's stuff I've said in other threads, sometimes I forget which stories I've told. I'm kind of like a senile old man that way:

1) During "A" School (the job specific school you take after Navy boot camp, for the military illiterate reading this Tongue), we'd get into semi organized barracks wrestling matches with the marines, and more often than not someone would bring some pepper spray to the party. It sucked, a lot, but the best way I can describe the way it affects me while I'm in the middle of a match is I start thinking a little less and letting the adrenaline take over a lot more. Stop being patient and tactical, start fighting off pure anger until someone gives up, stick around long enough that everyone sees what a badass you are, then run to the shower and cry while you try to decontaminate yourself.

2) My Army Guard unit in Nevada got designated as a backup force in the event the police needed assistance during a riot, and we were therefore required to begin undergoing regular riot control training. This is how the pepper spray portion of it worked: We'd stand still with our eyes open while someone sprayed us directly in the face, we'd stand around for about 15 seconds to let it take effect so we wouldn't get an unfair head start on the course that followed, then once it took effect they'd blow a whistle and we were off. The course started with us simply trying to attack a guy dressed in one of those ridiculous red pillow costume things so we could beat the shit out of him without actually hurting him, then proceeded to the exact opposite of that where someone would try to kick our ass while we did our best to defend ourselves (by this time more or less blind), then we'd have to go through a mock arrest scenario which involved taking someone down and handcuffing them mostly by feel, then we'd go stand in front of a big air conditioner and spray water on ourselves in an effort to decontaminate while thinking about how much life sucks right now.

Not being a line unit, we also had females in this unit. I feel that's significant to mention, because every single person in our unit passed this test with flying colors. True, we had one particular young girl that couldn't have been much more than 100 pounds, and she screamed in agony when she got hit with the spray. Nonetheless, when the whistle blew she took off like a raging psychopath and had the big red punching dummy on his ass in a matter of seconds.

3) When I started with Ontario Corrections, and again with Immigration, I had to go through similar obstacle courses. My defensive tactics instructor for corrections took it a step further (just to show us all what a bunch of pansies we were) by first spraying himself, and then putting a gas mask over his contaminated face to further restrict his access to fresh air, thereby amplifying the effects of the spray. He then proceeded to go through the course himself as if he didn't even give a shit. His face was bright red for the rest of the day, and he didn't deny that it sucked a lot.

The only times I've ever actually used spray in the line of duty was also within Canadian detention centres, where we used it regularly. It's best use was in gaining compliance from someone who was being stubborn, and perhaps making threats or otherwise indicating that they might become combative, but who had not yet actually become combative. Once they became combative, however, it was quite ineffective at actually breaking up a fight, though they'd be much more manageable and submissive once they finished kicking whoever's ass they were kicking and then had the frame of mind to realize how much they'd like to have a shower, and would pretty much do anything we said if they thought it would get them one. Also, every single time I or someone around me used it, all involved were contaminated. Obviously the inmate who took the direct hit (assuming we got a direct hit, which didn't always happen) was affected the worst, but the next step was to then subdue and handcuff them. This almost always had to be followed up by taking a couple hours off to go home, shower, change clothes, and decontaminate for a while before returning to work.

The recurring theme, from my own subjective experiences, is that getting sprayed absolutely sucks ass. I will never deny that. And if you've got nothing better to do than think about how it sucks, you will indeed stand there coughing, sulking, and being blind, like the people in the videos. But if you've got an objective and the will to achieve that objective, the spray absolutely does not stop you. There are legitimate physical effects, namely reduced vision and difficulty in breathing, and it hurts in a way that's comparable to a real nasty sunburn, but it's ability to actually stop someone is based almost solely on the concept of pain compliance. It is not, by definition, incapacitating.

Now, if someone wants to carry it as a tool, I'm all for it. And if someone does attack you, and pepper spray happens to be the most practical weapon you've got in reach, by all means let it rip. But, as with guns, knives, or any other self defense weapon, do your research, learn it's limitations, have a plan before the encounter happens, run enough drills that this plan can be executed on instinct, and in the case of pepper spray, do something like the above mentioned courses at least once since, as mentioned, cross contamination is almost guaranteed.

Don't corrections officers have plastic riot masks or something? If not so much to prevent cross contamination than to keep the shit and piss and spit off your face.

Very nice post btw. I rarely have the interest to read one that long.

There are masks available, but we don't carry them with us for reasons ranging from convenience to political correctness. Masks look scary, and in the midst of the current law enforcement witch hunt we try not to look scary on camera. A jury sees us like that and we're guilty before the trial even starts. That may sound silly, but it's a very real concern, and one which actually has an entire class dedicated to it in our initial training. That's one of the reasons I didn't stay long. The inmates I can deal with. It's the general public and it's irrational standards I have problems with. The general consensus is that if you stay in law enforcement long enough, there's a pretty good chance you'll eventually end up getting charged with something.

When I first started, the only things I was authorized to carry on me while in the detention centre were handcuffs and gloves. Only supervisors actually carried pepper spray within the facility. When performing a community escort, such as to the hospital, we were issued pepper spray and a baton and also wore a vest. About 3 months after I started, due to an increasing trend in inmate assaults on staff, the rules changed and we were authorized, required in fact, to start carrying pepper spray within the detention centre as well. And when it came time to use it, it usually happened quick enough that even if we were carrying masks, we wouldn't have had time to stop and put them on.

Pretty much anything beyond that requires the activation of the Institutional Crisis Intervention Team, which is sort of like our version of correctional special forces lol. They come in with gas masks and also have at their disposal the use of pepper ball guns. Though composed of correctional officers itself, those who are members of the ICIT team cannot use those same tools under normal circumstances. Only after a documented ICIT activation.

'Murican Canadian
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28-10-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:16 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:14 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Like I care what you think.

You hurt me soo much Rolleyes.

Good luck in being "nice".

I am sorry if I offended you in any way and I am sorry to everyone, difference in opinions should not lead to fights. I sincerely apologize to everyone. Can we please move on and get back on topic.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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28-10-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:34 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:16 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  You hurt me soo much Rolleyes.

Good luck in being "nice".

I am sorry if I offended you in any way and I am sorry to everyone, difference in opinions should not lead to fights. I sincerely apologize to everyone. Can we please move on and get back on topic.

Sure but I forget what the topic was Laugh out load
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28-10-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:34 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:16 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  You hurt me soo much Rolleyes.

Good luck in being "nice".

I am sorry if I offended you in any way and I am sorry to everyone, difference in opinions should not lead to fights. I sincerely apologize to everyone.

I too apologize. Fights, though are in my opinion unavoidable.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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28-10-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:45 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 12:34 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  I am sorry if I offended you in any way and I am sorry to everyone, difference in opinions should not lead to fights. I sincerely apologize to everyone.

I too apologize. Fights, though are in my opinion unavoidable.

In a format like this, I agree but water under the bridge, lets just continue on.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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28-10-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
Uncle Bob, I need your help....I need reassurance that I am the one fucked-up-in-the-head, after reading some of the stuff here I'm starting to doubt myself...
Unsure

Joking aside...guns...I like shiny ones.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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28-10-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(28-10-2015 12:57 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Uncle Bob, I need your help....I need reassurance that I am the one fucked-up-in-the-head, after reading some of the stuff here I'm starting to doubt myself...
Unsure

There there little dimwitted Serbian assassin. Let Uncle Bob assure you that you are in fact the one fucked-up-in-the-head. I can show you the Interpol file on you if you need more reassurance.

#sigh
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