Psychology of guns
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26-10-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 05:42 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:People that are pro-gun are generally very well versed in the safe use of firearms.

Yeah...they're all fucking geniuses.

http://aattp.org/dont-paint-us-as-ignora...s-himself/

Quote:‘Don’t Paint Us As Ignorant Hillbillies’ — Gun Nut Guarding Anti-Muslim Gun Store Accidentally Shoots Himself

"Generally" does not equal "all".
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26-10-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
The thing is, when guns are prevalent, it changes the way people see each other, especially strangers.
Jennybee noted how she felt safer when she had a firearm when she went hiking alone because of groups of men hiking.
Personally, whenever I went hiking alone (albeit more often mountain biking or cross-country skiing alone) I didn't see "groups of men" as a threat; especially if I was alone in a wilderness area, I was comforted by the knowledge that there were other people around so that if I were to get injured or lost, someone would be around to get help, because in Canada, I am much more likely to be injured or killed because I lost my way while hiking than I am of being confronted by someone who is armed (except possibly during hunting season, but even then, it would be an accident).

This well-publicised episode was lampooned in Canadian media and illustrates the different perspectives that, IMO, result from a different mindset caused by the prevalence, or lack, of handguns.

Now I don't think it's fair to judge the police officer in this case as unreasonable: he was probably reacting the way one would expect to react when similarly confronted by two men in a park in Kalamazoo. But the point is that his reaction is completely unfounded (and considered hilarious) in Calgary.

In other words, if everyone is packing, I guess it makes sense to approach everyone as if they are packing.

I just think that a country has lost something precious when that attitude prevails

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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26-10-2015, 08:44 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 08:36 PM)Reducetarian Wrote:  The thing is, when guns are prevalent, it changes the way people see each other, especially strangers.
Jennybee noted how she felt safer when she had a firearm when she went hiking alone because of groups of men hiking.
Personally, whenever I went hiking alone (albeit more often mountain biking or cross-country skiing alone) I didn't see "groups of men" as a threat; especially if I was alone in a wilderness area, I was comforted by the knowledge that there were other people around so that if I were to get injured or lost, someone would be around to get help, because in Canada, I am much more likely to be injured or killed because I lost my way while hiking than I am of being confronted by someone who is armed (except possibly during hunting season, but even then, it would be an accident).

This well-publicised episode was lampooned in Canadian media and illustrates the different perspectives that, IMO, result from a different mindset caused by the prevalence, or lack, of handguns.

Now I don't think it's fair to judge the police officer in this case as unreasonable: he was probably reacting the way one would expect to react when similarly confronted by two men in a park in Kalamazoo. But the point is that his reaction is completely unfounded (and considered hilarious) in Calgary.

In other words, if everyone is packing, I guess it makes sense to approach everyone as if they are packing.

I just think that a country has lost something precious when that attitude prevails

Nobody's ever grabbed my boobs either. Though it doesn't necessarily change most of the points of the debate overall, I think it's important to note that the world is a different place for women than it is for men, especially in regards to lone encounters with groups of men in isolated places.

As far as losing something precious, I tend to look at it the other way around. Safe places (both real and perceived) in the world are a relatively new and isolated phenomenon, and I don't expect it to last. But as noted in other threads, I have reason to be biased.

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26-10-2015, 09:02 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 08:36 PM)Reducetarian Wrote:  The thing is, when guns are prevalent, it changes the way people see each other, especially strangers.
Jennybee noted how she felt safer when she had a firearm when she went hiking alone because of groups of men hiking.
Personally, whenever I went hiking alone (albeit more often mountain biking or cross-country skiing alone) I didn't see "groups of men" as a threat; especially if I was alone in a wilderness area, I was comforted by the knowledge that there were other people around so that if I were to get injured or lost, someone would be around to get help, because in Canada, I am much more likely to be injured or killed because I lost my way while hiking than I am of being confronted by someone who is armed (except possibly during hunting season, but even then, it would be an accident).

This well-publicised episode was lampooned in Canadian media and illustrates the different perspectives that, IMO, result from a different mindset caused by the prevalence, or lack, of handguns.

Now I don't think it's fair to judge the police officer in this case as unreasonable: he was probably reacting the way one would expect to react when similarly confronted by two men in a park in Kalamazoo. But the point is that his reaction is completely unfounded (and considered hilarious) in Calgary.

In other words, if everyone is packing, I guess it makes sense to approach everyone as if they are packing.

I just think that a country has lost something precious when that attitude prevails

I don't see all men on the trails as a potential threat, but some have made me feel uneasy. I have seen *some* men act in various inappropriate ways in broad daylight with loads of other people around as julep mentioned in her post. Hopefully, the guys I encounter on the trails are the good guys like my Dad raised my brothers to be. But what if they're not? Then what? I'm out there by myself with no one around and nothing to protect me. I would only use a gun as an absolute last resort. But I want that last resort.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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26-10-2015, 09:10 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 07:18 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Note that shooting someone with a real bullet might not prevent him from shooting you too if you were shooting nearly simultaniously.

Nor would rubber bullets. Drinking Beverage

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26-10-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 07:27 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 05:21 PM)Chas Wrote:  It may make you feel better believing that, but it is not a survivable strategy for most people.

Sincerely,
An armed Canadian Drinking Beverage

Statistically speaking, I am safer without gun since guns are used about as often to defend yourself as they are involved in accidental shooting (making them safety neutral).

[Image: 1390269212824.png]

Quote:The most common use for a gun in Canada beside hunting is suicide (and its not even a very efficient fashion to kill yourself).

[Image: 1390269212824.png]

Quote:Despite this, I still support your right to have a gun for any reason that don't involve the desire to commit a crime.

Thanks. Everyone has the right and duty of self defense.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-10-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 08:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 08:36 PM)Reducetarian Wrote:  The thing is, when guns are prevalent, it changes the way people see each other, especially strangers.
Jennybee noted how she felt safer when she had a firearm when she went hiking alone because of groups of men hiking.
Personally, whenever I went hiking alone (albeit more often mountain biking or cross-country skiing alone) I didn't see "groups of men" as a threat; especially if I was alone in a wilderness area, I was comforted by the knowledge that there were other people around so that if I were to get injured or lost, someone would be around to get help, because in Canada, I am much more likely to be injured or killed because I lost my way while hiking than I am of being confronted by someone who is armed (except possibly during hunting season, but even then, it would be an accident).
This well-publicised episode was lampooned in Canadian media and illustrates the different perspectives that, IMO, result from a different mindset caused by the prevalence, or lack, of handguns.

Now I don't think it's fair to judge the police officer in this case as unreasonable: he was probably reacting the way one would expect to react when similarly confronted by two men in a park in Kalamazoo. But the point is that his reaction is completely unfounded (and considered hilarious) in Calgary.

In other words, if everyone is packing, I guess it makes sense to approach everyone as if they are packing.

I just think that a country has lost something precious when that attitude prevails

Nobody's ever grabbed my boobs either. Though it doesn't necessarily change most of the points of the debate overall, I think it's important to note that the world is a different place for women than it is for men, especially in regards to lone encounters with groups of men in isolated places.

As far as losing something precious, I tend to look at it the other way around. Safe places (both real and perceived) in the world are a relatively new and isolated phenomenon, and I don't expect it to last. But as noted in other threads, I have reason to be biased.

(Just for the record, I'm a woman, and I have several women friends who hike/bike/ski on their own in nearby wilderness areas (Gatineau Park).

I understand, and sympathise with Jennybee's concerns, but I can't say that I see things that way. All the sexual harassment I've ever experienced (LOTS) has always been from someone I knew, never from strangers.

Before she moved in with my son, his girlfriend regularly took a 75 minute bus ride, on two buses, and walked 15 minutes to her home, after classes at the University of Ottawa, which ended at 10 p.m.
This kind of commute is considered normal where I live.

Do bad things happen in such situations: yes, they do. but rarely.
Do we expect them to happen? not really.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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26-10-2015, 09:30 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 09:13 PM)Reducetarian Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 08:44 PM)yakherder Wrote:  Nobody's ever grabbed my boobs either. Though it doesn't necessarily change most of the points of the debate overall, I think it's important to note that the world is a different place for women than it is for men, especially in regards to lone encounters with groups of men in isolated places.

As far as losing something precious, I tend to look at it the other way around. Safe places (both real and perceived) in the world are a relatively new and isolated phenomenon, and I don't expect it to last. But as noted in other threads, I have reason to be biased.

(Just for the record, I'm a woman, and I have several women friends who hike/bike/ski on their own in nearby wilderness areas (Gatineau Park).

I understand, and sympathise with Jennybee's concerns, but I can't say that I see things that way. All the sexual harassment I've ever experienced (LOTS) has always been from someone I knew, never from strangers.

Before she moved in with my son, his girlfriend regularly took a 75 minute bus ride, on two buses, and walked 15 minutes to her home, after classes at the University of Ottawa, which ended at 10 p.m.
This kind of commute is considered normal where I live.

Do bad things happen in such situations: yes, they do. but rarely.
Do we expect them to happen? not really.

Statistically, she is indeed likely to make it home without incident. Nonetheless, OCDC, the detention centre about 10 minutes away from University of Ottawa, is filled to the brim with people ranging from harmless pot smokers to serial killers, rapists, child killers, terror conspirators, Somalian gang members, Crips and Bloods, all of whom were pulled off the peaceful streets of Canada. You don't expect anything to happen because you see the statistics and you see people making it home safely most of the time. I know it does happen because I had the honor of getting to chat with them daily for just long enough to ruin my previously innocent American view of Canada Smile

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26-10-2015, 11:36 PM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 11:43 PM by Stevil.)
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm afraid of getting raped or worse.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/24/...s-20140224
Quote:According to the study, there is a pronounced risk for a woman being the victim of a firearm homicide if she lives in a home in which guns are present. And often the shooting is accompanied by the suicide or attempted suicide of the shooter, most often a spouse or partner.
I guess that needs to be assessed in relation to the chances of being raped or murdered by an unfamiliar.

My understanding is that most rapes and assaults on females are by familiars.

I would say that owning a gun possibly gives you the feeling of some control in your destiny but on an odds calculation might prove to put you in danger more than help you.

I'd much rather go for a hike with friends than with a gun. The best way to not be a victim is to avoid being in situations where an attacker might feel brave.

Although either way, you'll probably be safe.
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27-10-2015, 12:35 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 11:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm afraid of getting raped or worse.
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/24/...s-20140224
Quote:According to the study, there is a pronounced risk for a woman being the victim of a firearm homicide if she lives in a home in which guns are present. And often the shooting is accompanied by the suicide or attempted suicide of the shooter, most often a spouse or partner.
I guess that needs to be assessed in relation to the chances of being raped or murdered by an unfamiliar.

My understanding is that most rapes and assaults on females are by familiars.

I would say that owning a gun possibly gives you the feeling of some control in your destiny but on an odds calculation might prove to put you in danger more than help you.

I'd much rather go for a hike with friends than with a gun. The best way to not be a victim is to avoid being in situations where an attacker might feel brave.

Although either way, you'll probably be safe.

I would agree most rapes and assaults are by familiars. But I have had scary situations happen to me by non-familiars.

I was followed several blocks at night by a non-familiar. I have been grabbed in various parts of my body in front of a grocery store in broad daylight, in the subway going to work, walking down the street, and of course, as with most women, I've had my boobs and ass grabbed in bars on several occasions. All by non familiars.

Those are some of the physical situations I've had with non familiars. It doesn't include the nonfamiliars that comment on my breasts, ass and so on--also done in public places.

Now add in the remoteness of a hiking trail and coming across random men on the trail. Yes, 9 times out of 10, they're probably nice guys. But there is always the possibility of someone who has it in their mind to take advantage of another person.

I could hike with friends and I do sometimes, but if i want to hike by myself, why shouldn't I have the peace of mind and ability to protect myself if I should desire to do that? If carrying a gun gives me that, why shouldn't I take one with me?

I do agree with you though, I think if you are untrained in the use of a firearm, you certainly could do more harm. I have two experienced gun nuts in my life who I have the ability to practice with. I'm also taking Krav Maga. I just believe in protecting myself in as many ways as possible and not becoming a victim.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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