Psychology of guns
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27-10-2015, 01:24 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  why shouldn't I have the peace of mind and ability to protect myself if I should desire to do that? If carrying a gun gives me that, why shouldn't I take one with me?
I think its best to avoid situations rather than to bring a gun along.

Whose to say they don't just walk away and then sneak up on you later, or bring along their own gun. I really think its smarter to avoid situations, and perhaps a gun makes you feel safe and hence walk alone in a secluded area where a nasty thug sees you as a target.

I know it doesn't seem right. Why shouldn't you be able to walk alone. Well, unfortunately there are some creeps out there.

(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I do agree with you though, I think if you are untrained in the use of a firearm, you certainly could do more harm.
It's not about how good you are. If a gun is in the house then a boyfriend could use it on you. I know you may feel it is unlikely and it probably is, but it is even more unlikely that you will be the victim of a home invasion. I think having a gun in the house increases your chances of being harmed. But who knows, it's your choice and I could be wrong.


(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm also taking Krav Maga. I just believe in protecting myself in as many ways as possible and not becoming a victim.
I've seen a couple of Gracie youtube videos (brazilian ju jitsu) their main message, Avoid a fight, walk away if you can, don't engage, don't stand your ground. Only fight as a last resort.

Honestly, if your neighbourhood is so dangerous, would you consider moving to a safer place? A gun is not going to make you invincible.
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27-10-2015, 03:51 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 02:29 PM)Reducetarian Wrote:  I don't think that your first point is true in places outside the USA. In places other than America, there's a big difference between being "pro-gun" and "pro-handgun-for-personal-protection"

There are many very competent, gun-safe hunters in Canada who are quite knowledgeable about weapons but don't think of their hunting rifles as a weapon for personal protection (except from bears). I think that such attitudes towards firearms are much more culturally specific than you may realize.

As a former Canadian army engineering officer and range safety officer, who has studied and fired weapons of pretty much every calibre, I would never consider carrying a firearm for personal protection in any area of any major metropolitan centre in Canada. So that would make me a gun-knowledgeable, "anti-handgun-for-"personal-protection" person. And I don't know of anyone who feels differently, among all my middle-aged army and hunter friends and acquaintances, be they politically liberal or conservative.

My son recently obtained his firearms license because his girlfriend and her family are avid hunters. He too would never consider obtaining a non-hunting-related firearm. And neither would his friends. Yet all are first-person-shooter video game players, Call-of-Duty fans, and paintball aficionados.

My father-in-law is the most bad-ass 70 year-old you ever met, goes deer and moose hunting yearly, regularly supplemented his family's diet with game meats, still hunts deer with a crossbow, subscribes to "chasse et pĂȘche" (a hunting and fishing magazine) and yet would never consider owning a handgun for self-protection, even though he lives in Montreal.

Now maybe that's because Canada has much stricter laws concerning firearms, and handguns in particular, but there is no significant movement to change this aspect of our culture. Rather, there is pressure to stop the illegal flow of handguns from the US.

At least in Canada, (and probably in Europe) there is A HUGE difference in attitude towards owning a firearm for hunting and owning a firearm for self-defence: the idea of owning a firearm for self-defence just doesn't enter into the equation for "ordinary" people in Canada and Europe, regardless of whether they live in urban or rural areas. (By "ordinary" I mean those not involved in gangs and/or organized crime).

IMO, the real question here is: What are you (individual Americans) afraid of?
Now ask yourself: Why are you afraid of this?

I'm afraid of getting raped or worse. I have had many scary situations happen. While I was in a grocery store parking lot, a man came up from behind me while I was getting a shopping cart, put his arm around me tightly and started hitting on me. I had another guy show up at my house and try to get in saying he was a repair man and would not leave. This was after I caught him peering through the holes in my fence at me and would have continued to do so if I had not asked him what the fuck he wanted. I have had situations where I have been stuck in really bad areas of the city and had a man follow me for several blocks at night. I have been hiking by myself in the woods and have come across a group of men and I just think to myself fuck, if something happened to me out here I'd be fucked without a gun or some way to protect myself. This is only a snapshot of some of the shit I have had to deal with. And unfortunately, I know many women who have had similar situations.

(26-10-2015 03:52 PM)julep Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm afraid of getting raped or worse. I have had many scary situations happen. While I was in a grocery store parking lot, a man came up from behind me while I was getting a shopping cart, put his arm around me tightly and started hitting on me. I had another guy show up at my house and try to get in saying he was a repair man and would not leave. This was after I caught him peering through the holes in my fence at me and would have continued to do so if I had not asked him what the fuck he wanted. I have had situations where I have been stuck in really bad areas of the city and had a man follow me for several blocks at night. I have been hiking by myself in the woods and have come across a group of men and I just think to myself fuck, if something happened to me out here I'd be fucked without a gun or some way to protect myself. This is only a snapshot of some of the shit I have had to deal with. And unfortunately, I know many women who have had similar situations.

I've been in similar situations also. I've had a man try to throw me into traffic in broad daylight, had men follow me, had a man stick a gun in my back, been robbed by a pair of men twice, had a man grab my boob while I was walking in a park with a friend, also in broad daylight, had men change from friendliness to extreme, threatening hostility the minute you decline a date with them, run into more than my share of flashers, etc., etc., etc. Plus just the normal harassment and intimidation you get at the street level when you are a female walking by yourself. I understand that feeling of having to always be on your guard and being afraid of what might happen.

A gun isn't my personal choice for protection, and I support stricter gun control laws, but I totally get why women, especially, feel they need that kind of protection.

I am amazed how unsafe living in US is. In that kind of environment I would probably be packing myself. It`s kinda funny for a Serbian guy, but the biggest issue of living in US for me would be personal safety and of my family and crime rates.

Be careful with that Krav Maga or Bjj or any other form of martial arts defense techniques, it might give you unwarranted confidence when dealing with those kinds of situations. It takes years to master and there is no guarantee it will work plus a lot of people teach complete bullshit in those classes.

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27-10-2015, 04:22 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 03:51 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm afraid of getting raped or worse. I have had many scary situations happen. While I was in a grocery store parking lot, a man came up from behind me while I was getting a shopping cart, put his arm around me tightly and started hitting on me. I had another guy show up at my house and try to get in saying he was a repair man and would not leave. This was after I caught him peering through the holes in my fence at me and would have continued to do so if I had not asked him what the fuck he wanted. I have had situations where I have been stuck in really bad areas of the city and had a man follow me for several blocks at night. I have been hiking by myself in the woods and have come across a group of men and I just think to myself fuck, if something happened to me out here I'd be fucked without a gun or some way to protect myself. This is only a snapshot of some of the shit I have had to deal with. And unfortunately, I know many women who have had similar situations.

(26-10-2015 03:52 PM)julep Wrote:  I've been in similar situations also. I've had a man try to throw me into traffic in broad daylight, had men follow me, had a man stick a gun in my back, been robbed by a pair of men twice, had a man grab my boob while I was walking in a park with a friend, also in broad daylight, had men change from friendliness to extreme, threatening hostility the minute you decline a date with them, run into more than my share of flashers, etc., etc., etc. Plus just the normal harassment and intimidation you get at the street level when you are a female walking by yourself. I understand that feeling of having to always be on your guard and being afraid of what might happen.

A gun isn't my personal choice for protection, and I support stricter gun control laws, but I totally get why women, especially, feel they need that kind of protection.

I am amazed how unsafe living in US is.

Women being groped and sexually assaulted is hardly a USA exclusive.

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27-10-2015, 05:17 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 05:24 AM by Slowminded.)
RE: Psychology of guns
...edited. Never mind.

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27-10-2015, 05:35 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
I think women in Sweden probably feel more supported to report a rape, which would skew the numbers.
I think that the numbers for Canada may be low because of 0f underreporting of rape within First Nations, Metis and Inuit populations (unfortunately).
But that's a WHOLE other issue, and should not be confused with the rates for white settler nation populations.

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27-10-2015, 06:56 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 07:14 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 01:24 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  why shouldn't I have the peace of mind and ability to protect myself if I should desire to do that? If carrying a gun gives me that, why shouldn't I take one with me?
I think its best to avoid situations rather than to bring a gun along.

Whose to say they don't just walk away and then sneak up on you later, or bring along their own gun. I really think its smarter to avoid situations, and perhaps a gun makes you feel safe and hence walk alone in a secluded area where a nasty thug sees you as a target.

I know it doesn't seem right. Why shouldn't you be able to walk alone. Well, unfortunately there are some creeps out there.

(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I do agree with you though, I think if you are untrained in the use of a firearm, you certainly could do more harm.
It's not about how good you are. If a gun is in the house then a boyfriend could use it on you. I know you may feel it is unlikely and it probably is, but it is even more unlikely that you will be the victim of a home invasion. I think having a gun in the house increases your chances of being harmed. But who knows, it's your choice and I could be wrong.


(27-10-2015 12:35 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm also taking Krav Maga. I just believe in protecting myself in as many ways as possible and not becoming a victim.
I've seen a couple of Gracie youtube videos (brazilian ju jitsu) their main message, Avoid a fight, walk away if you can, don't engage, don't stand your ground. Only fight as a last resort.

Honestly, if your neighbourhood is so dangerous, would you consider moving to a safer place? A gun is not going to make you invincible.

I live in an upscale area, so it is quite safe. Even with that, I still had a creepy guy try to get into my house by saying he was a "repair man." Most of the situations I described happened in the city. So I guess I shouldn't work or live in the city then? Avoiding doing things out of the fear of something bad happening hardly seems like any way to live. I would rather still do the things I love to do, go the places I love to go and be as proactive as possible in protecting myself. I would certainly prefer to walk away instead of getting hurt or hurting someone else. But that isn't always an option. I don't think a gun makes me invincible--just safer and more well-equipped to protect myself should the situation arise, which I hope it never does.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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27-10-2015, 07:05 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 03:51 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 02:41 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm afraid of getting raped or worse. I have had many scary situations happen. While I was in a grocery store parking lot, a man came up from behind me while I was getting a shopping cart, put his arm around me tightly and started hitting on me. I had another guy show up at my house and try to get in saying he was a repair man and would not leave. This was after I caught him peering through the holes in my fence at me and would have continued to do so if I had not asked him what the fuck he wanted. I have had situations where I have been stuck in really bad areas of the city and had a man follow me for several blocks at night. I have been hiking by myself in the woods and have come across a group of men and I just think to myself fuck, if something happened to me out here I'd be fucked without a gun or some way to protect myself. This is only a snapshot of some of the shit I have had to deal with. And unfortunately, I know many women who have had similar situations.

(26-10-2015 03:52 PM)julep Wrote:  I've been in similar situations also. I've had a man try to throw me into traffic in broad daylight, had men follow me, had a man stick a gun in my back, been robbed by a pair of men twice, had a man grab my boob while I was walking in a park with a friend, also in broad daylight, had men change from friendliness to extreme, threatening hostility the minute you decline a date with them, run into more than my share of flashers, etc., etc., etc. Plus just the normal harassment and intimidation you get at the street level when you are a female walking by yourself. I understand that feeling of having to always be on your guard and being afraid of what might happen.

A gun isn't my personal choice for protection, and I support stricter gun control laws, but I totally get why women, especially, feel they need that kind of protection.

I am amazed how unsafe living in US is. In that kind of environment I would probably be packing myself. It`s kinda funny for a Serbian guy, but the biggest issue of living in US for me would be personal safety and of my family and crime rates.

Be careful with that Krav Maga or Bjj or any other form of martial arts defense techniques, it might give you unwarranted confidence when dealing with those kinds of situations. It takes years to master and there is no guarantee it will work plus a lot of people teach complete bullshit in those classes.

I definitely don't think taking Krav Maga is going to make me a world class fighter. But I do think it gives me the opportunity to learn some techniques to at least try and protect myself if I absolutely need to. My instructor is also a man-so working with him gives me the opportunity and experience of "fighting" with a man. Despite a gun and Krav Maga, could I still become a victim of a crime? Of course I could. But at least I would feel like I am doing what I can to be proactive in my safety.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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27-10-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 09:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 07:27 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Statistically speaking, I am safer without gun since guns are used about as often to defend yourself as they are involved in accidental shooting (making them safety neutral).

[Image: 1390269212824.png]

Quote:The most common use for a gun in Canada beside hunting is suicide (and its not even a very efficient fashion to kill yourself).

[Image: 1390269212824.png]

Quote:Despite this, I still support your right to have a gun for any reason that don't involve the desire to commit a crime.

Thanks. Everyone has the right and duty of self defense.

Here is where I got this inforamation.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/fire-feu-...a-eng.htm.

792 people were killed by firearms in Canada in 2003 (a pretty average year). 78% are suicide, 17% are murders, 3% are accidental shootings, 2% were due to legal intervention like police shooting or self defense. There is other link on that perticular website that talk in more detail about suicide rates where you can get more information.

It's also good to note that most murders with firearms are gang related and those who are not are usualy linked to conjugal violence. In both cases, men are the most common victims.

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27-10-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
Here is a perfect example of what women go through on a daily basis in terms of harassment by random males. In my situation (and for several women I know) we also have been grabbed and touched in various areas of our body in addition to being verbally harassed. Sadly, what this woman is going through in this you tube video is not in any way unique.




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27-10-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
@jennybee

I whole heartly approve of you learning Krav Maga and carrying a gun. Krav Maga is an excellent martial art for self defense, especially for women considering the physical aptitudes it requires and develop. As for the gun, though I doubt it can offer any worthwhile form of protection, if it does make you feel more confident, then its doing a good job. Don't take this as an advice, but have you ever considered a professionnaly trained personnal protection dog? They are legal in most areas and are apparently the best deterant short to real bodyguard.

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