Psychology of guns
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27-10-2015, 09:11 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 08:59 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @jennybee

I whole heartly approve of you learning Krav Maga and carrying a gun. Krav Maga is an excellent martial art for self defense, especially for women considering the physical aptitudes it requires and develop. As for the gun, though I doubt it can offer any worthwhile form of protection, if it does make you feel more confident, then its doing a good job. Don't take this as an advice, but have you ever considered a professionnaly trained personnal protection dog? They are legal in most areas and are apparently the best deterant short to real bodyguard.

I have four dogs--two germ sheps, a rhodesian ridgeback, and a lab mix. They are not trained as personal protection dogs--but they certainly are a deterrent.

Some hiking trails don't allow dogs, but I like to bring them when I can.
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27-10-2015, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2015 09:17 AM by epronovost.)
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 09:11 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:59 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @jennybee

I whole heartly approve of you learning Krav Maga and carrying a gun. Krav Maga is an excellent martial art for self defense, especially for women considering the physical aptitudes it requires and develop. As for the gun, though I doubt it can offer any worthwhile form of protection, if it does make you feel more confident, then its doing a good job. Don't take this as an advice, but have you ever considered a professionnaly trained personnal protection dog? They are legal in most areas and are apparently the best deterant short to real bodyguard.

I have four dogs--two germ sheps, a rhodesian ridgeback, and a lab mix. They are not trained as personal protection dogs--but they certainly are a deterrent.

Nice! I have a pit bull. Her most fearsome attack strategy is flopping on her back so you can rub her belly. Tongue

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27-10-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 09:14 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 09:11 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I have four dogs--two germ sheps, a rhodesian ridgeback, and a lab mix. They are not trained as personal protection dogs--but they certainly are a deterrent.

Nice! I have a pit bull. Her most fearsome attack strategy is flopping on her back so you can rub her belly. Tongue

I've got a pug. It's attack strategy is shitting all over the floor then going back to sleep.

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27-10-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 08:59 AM)epronovost Wrote:  As for the gun, though I doubt it can offer any worthwhile form of protection

But I thought rubber bullets or plastic bullets were good for self-defense? You do realize you need a gun to shoot those right? So how can the gun not be worthwhile for protection but the bullets can?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-10-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
Four rules for the armed citizen to live by

1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the possibility of death or serious injury at the hands of someone else.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.

Before you use your gun the person against which you intend to use your gun must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury.
B. OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm.
C. INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

A person is not justified in the use of deadly force unless all three of these elements are in place simultaneously.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN!

4. DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.

When you made the decision to arm yourself you lost the right to initiate any kind of confrontation that could escalate into violence. No flipping off the motorist that just cut you off. No fuck you to the asshole that just grabbed your wife’s ass. When someone gets in your face your first response must be to either ignore them or attempt to walk away. You have a legal obligation to de-escalate any situation that does not meet the criteria of 1 through 3 above.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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27-10-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 09:36 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:59 AM)epronovost Wrote:  As for the gun, though I doubt it can offer any worthwhile form of protection

But I thought rubber bullets or plastic bullets were good for self-defense? You do realize you need a gun to shoot those right? So how can the gun not be worthwhile for protection but the bullets can?

Actualy my argument was more under the line that a gun shooting real bullets and a gun shooting plastic bullets are about has efficient to protect yourself from a predatory criminial (AKA a stranger who attack you). The real bullet might be a little bit more efficient because of its greater lethality, but not that much. In most situation where a criminal attack you, your chances of drawing a firearm before you are incapacitated are fairly low. All in all, they offer little actual protection and have a very limited use, but offer good psychological support which can help you avoid being targeted by criminals. The idea of a gun is much more useful and powerful than the gun itself.

The reason I favor non lethal weapons over lethal ones are mostly based around the idea that guns which fire real bullets create higher risks of injury to yourself and, apparently, suicide attempt compared to non lethal weapon. Considering my social status, sex, age and way of life. My chances of developping suicidal tendencies or being shot by accident while hunting are much higher than those of being attacked by a predatory criminal in a circomstance where my martial art training would be useless, but where a gun could have saved my skin.

Basically, if you have several means of protection that are about has efficient, its more wise to take the one that generate the less risk to your person has a secondary effect.

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27-10-2015, 10:13 AM
RE: Psychology of guns
(26-10-2015 10:21 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I have a friend who's quite fond of their few weapons.

I have yet to see them act "...Act more aggressively in the presence of a weapon."

That being said, I also highly doubt they would even be bothered to investigate their weapons when emotionally excited/angered....

Drawing conclusions from 1 data point? Maybe you should publish this to correct the dozens of studies that show otherwise. Look, I know this article is a secondary source and what exactly is meant by more aggressive is not defined and of course there could be a difference between gun owners who are used to guns and non-gun owners who are not used to them. There will also be a range of responses, from no response to more response. Drawing conclusions from one datapoint has it's problems.

(26-10-2015 11:04 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  We're surprised when people who hold anti-gun attitudes have studies that come up with results skewed against firearms????

.....

Next we'll be surprised to find out that water is wet, and starving people prefer food to fiberglass insulation.....

OK, if you are going to make a statement like this, you need to back it up. How is measuring testosterone levels before and after being in a room with a gun and comparing it with a control with group in the same room with no gun skewed against firearms? And this article isn't against firearms, it is about the response to guns.

(26-10-2015 01:01 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 12:59 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Color me equally not surprised when people who are pro-gun chose to ignore said results assuming investigator bias.

Yup... There is one difference though.. Those people that tend to be the most anti-gun are also the ones that have the least actual knowledge of firearms.

People that are pro-gun are generally very well versed in the safe use of firearms.

OK, this makes sense. People who have the least knowledge of firearms because they don't own firearms are not very well versed in the safe use of firearms. Just like people who have never driven a tractor trailer are the least well versed in how to drive one safely.
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27-10-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I live in an upscale area, so it is quite safe.
And yet you have these incidents and feel the need to protect yourself from other people by having a gun.

My wife has lived for over 40 years. She has never had these incidents you speak of. She has never felt like she needs to carry a weapon. She feels safe.

That's not to say that crime doesn't happen here. People get murdered and raped in NZ too, but not that often and not with people welding guns.

My wife would never consider going for a hike on her own. It's unfortunate that she can't but she is sensible enough not to.


(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  So I guess I shouldn't work or live in the city then?
I don't tell you what you should do. I am suggesting that if safety is important to you that there are possibly safer places to live. I know many people that have moved to NZ from South Africa because they felt SA was too dangerous for them and their families.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Avoiding doing things out of the fear of something bad happening hardly seems like any way to live.
Getting into situations where you need a gun for survival doesn't seem to me to be a survival strategy.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would rather still do the things I love to do, go the places I love to go and be as proactive as possible in protecting myself.
Moving to a safe area/country would be proactive, doing things in a group would be proactive, ensuring you are not in a dark and secluded area would be proactive. Avoiding situations where a gun would be handy would be proactive.

But it's your life, if you feel that you want to do these things and if you feel that a gun makes you safer then that's your choice. I'm not telling you what to do, I am not telling you what you should do, I am merely suggesting alternatives that also focus on personal safety.
This is how my wife and I live. We avoid putting ourselves in those situations and we never have those incidents (so far, fingers crossed).
I wouldn't say that we are missing out on things. We go for bush hikes often, we go out, we go to the beach, we go to cabins and back packers. We explore foreign countries, third world countries etc. We never carry guns or knives or clubs.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would certainly prefer to walk away instead of getting hurt or hurting someone else. But that isn't always an option.
If you go into the bush on your own, you may appear like a target. The potential rapist may think opportunity is knocking.
I'm not saying it is your fault. I'm just saying that if you are in a secluded area and if you are in a group then you are less likely to have an incident.
My wife would never go to secluded area like this on her own.


(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I don't think a gun makes me invincible--just safer and more well-equipped to protect myself should the situation arise, which I hope it never does.
Yes, I hope you never have to use it in anger.
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27-10-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
I like bear spray best.




#sigh
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27-10-2015, 12:58 PM
RE: Psychology of guns
(27-10-2015 12:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I live in an upscale area, so it is quite safe.
And yet you have these incidents and feel the need to protect yourself from other people by having a gun.

My wife has lived for over 40 years. She has never had these incidents you speak of. She has never felt like she needs to carry a weapon. She feels safe.

That's not to say that crime doesn't happen here. People get murdered and raped in NZ too, but not that often and not with people welding guns.

My wife would never consider going for a hike on her own. It's unfortunate that she can't but she is sensible enough not to.


(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  So I guess I shouldn't work or live in the city then?
I don't tell you what you should do. I am suggesting that if safety is important to you that there are possibly safer places to live. I know many people that have moved to NZ from South Africa because they felt SA was too dangerous for them and their families.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Avoiding doing things out of the fear of something bad happening hardly seems like any way to live.
Getting into situations where you need a gun for survival doesn't seem to me to be a survival strategy.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would rather still do the things I love to do, go the places I love to go and be as proactive as possible in protecting myself.
Moving to a safe area/country would be proactive, doing things in a group would be proactive, ensuring you are not in a dark and secluded area would be proactive. Avoiding situations where a gun would be handy would be proactive.

But it's your life, if you feel that you want to do these things and if you feel that a gun makes you safer then that's your choice. I'm not telling you what to do, I am not telling you what you should do, I am merely suggesting alternatives that also focus on personal safety.
This is how my wife and I live. We avoid putting ourselves in those situations and we never have those incidents (so far, fingers crossed).
I wouldn't say that we are missing out on things. We go for bush hikes often, we go out, we go to the beach, we go to cabins and back packers. We explore foreign countries, third world countries etc. We never carry guns or knives or clubs.

(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I would certainly prefer to walk away instead of getting hurt or hurting someone else. But that isn't always an option.
If you go into the bush on your own, you may appear like a target. The potential rapist may think opportunity is knocking.
I'm not saying it is your fault. I'm just saying that if you are in a secluded area and if you are in a group then you are less likely to have an incident.
My wife would never go to secluded area like this on her own.


(27-10-2015 06:56 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I don't think a gun makes me invincible--just safer and more well-equipped to protect myself should the situation arise, which I hope it never does.
Yes, I hope you never have to use it in anger.

I am glad your wife has never experienced anything I mentioned in my post--but she is definitely one of the few in my experience.

As for where I'm living--crime happens everywhere--whether you live in an upscale area or in the heart of the city.

I enjoy hiking on my own. I enjoy being independent. I could live in a bubble, but I would not be happy living life like that. I don't think hiding yourself away from life's experiences due to fear is a fair alternative. I am a very peaceful person. I don't even kill bugs. It would take a lot for things to get to the point where I would use a gun on someone in self-defense--but I would do it in a heartbeat to be able to protect myself. If bringing a gun on hiking excursions allows me the freedom to feel comfortable hiking on my own--then I really don't see a problem with it.
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