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Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
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19-07-2013, 10:32 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2013 09:11 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
There are 2 points I want to try and make in this thread. Firstly, white america has taken it upon themselves to start pulling the race card and claim that they are discriminated against in the US. This is absurd. In a country founded by white men and run by white men ever since, this idea is nonsensical.

They claim that the existence of groups like the NAACP or the existence of measures that require that companies to consider candidates of more than a single ethnicity, are discriminatory. They aren't. For several reasons. Firstly, there is nothing that says a group can't form based off of whatever criteria they like. The KKK takes advantage of this. The difference between a group like the NAACP and the KKK? One advocates for helping its members in cooperation with a civil society, and the other advocates for a society based upon their notions of racial superiority. The NAACP, doesn't take measures to try and discriminate against or speak out against white people or anyone of any other ethnicity.

Requiring businesses and institutions to consider all candidates and not to restrict their selection process to a single race of people, is a measure to prevent discrimination. It ensures that an organization can't discriminate from the very beginning of the hiring process.


The second point of this thread builds off of the first. There remains a wide gap in this country between the social and financial standing of its citizens. And that gap is coincidental with race because of our sordid history of discrimination. Simply put, society and education, have not caught up in communities of minorities in this country. Leaving them (on average) poorer and less educated. It serves to reinforce the racist notion of white superiority by claiming they have the opportunity now, but haven't taken advantage of it. Which isn't true. Statistically, more minorities grow up in poverty than do those who are white/Caucasian. Growing up in poverty means statistically, you are less likely to be well educated, more likely to remain in poverty your whole life, and more likely to engage in illegal activities. Factor in that the parents of these people experienced the same conditions and that their kids will experience the same conditions and, you have a system that serves to further the gap or at the very least, not shorten it. This works for communities where there is predominantly only one race too, as well as in other countries that have predominantly only one race. It isn't about race, it is about social standing and financial stability. And minorities in this country still don't equal whites. And those inequalities, lead to social separation.

It's not a particularly encouraging revelation, but it is necessary in order to recognize it is still a problem.

I am more than sick of white people I know claiming to be discriminated against. We are easily the most privileged group here. It is complete nonsensical quackery.

A video by a young girl for someone else's perspective too



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19-07-2013, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2013 10:58 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 10:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  There are 2 points I want to try and make in this thread. Firstly, white america has taken it upon themselves to start pulling the race card and claim that they are discriminated against in the US. This is absurd. In a country founded by white men and run by white men ever since, this idea is nonsensical.

They claim that the existence of groups like the NAACP or the existence of measures that require that companies to consider candidates of more than a single ethnicity, are discriminatory. They aren't. For several reasons. Firstly, there is nothing that says a group can't form based off of whatever criteria they like. The KKK takes advantage of this. The difference between a group like the NAACP and the KKK? One advocates for helping its members in cooperation with a civil society, and the other advocates for a society based upon their notions of racial superiority. The NAACP, doesn't take measures to try and discriminate against or speak out against white people or anyone of any other ethnicity.

Requiring businesses and institutions to consider all candidates and not to restrict their selection process to a single race of people, is a measure to prevent discrimination. It ensures that an organization can't discriminate from the very beginning of the hiring process.


The second point of this thread builds off of the first. There remains a wide gap in this country between the social and financial standing of its citizens. And that gap is coincidental with race because of our sordid history of discrimination. Simply put, society and education, have not caught up in communities of minorities in this country. Leaving them (on average) poorer and less educated. It serves to reinforce the racist notion of white superiority by claiming they have the opportunity now, but haven't taken advantage of it. Which isn't true. Statistically, more minorities grow up in poverty than do those who are white/Caucasian. Growing up in poverty means statistically, you are less likely to be well educated, more likely to remain in poverty your whole life, and more likely to engage in illegal activities. Factor in that the parents of these people experienced the same conditions and that their kids will experience the same conditions and, you have a system that serves to further the gap or at the very least, not shorten it. This works for communities where there is predominantly only one race too, as well as in other countries that have predominantly only one race. It isn't about race, it is about social standing and financial stability. And minorities in this country still don't equal whites. And those inequalities, lead to social separation.

It's not a particularly encouraging revelation, but it is necessary in order to recognize it is still a problem.

I am more than sick of white people I know claiming to be discriminated against. We are easily the most privileged group here. It is complete nonsensical quackery.

A video by a young girl for someone else's perspective too




I think she is drawing lines that don't need to be drawn. I can see her point but at this point any time unification and mutual understanding should be encouraged.

I do think that organizations like the NAACP do do themselves a disservice because they perpetuate division...HOWEVER that is not to say that the situation then and now does not demand the existence of such groups. I just hope that at some point in the future we can abolish the NEED for them.

What I think is that instead of fighting racism which cannot/should not be a legislative battle and is purely cultural (the state should be colorblind) we should instead fight the mechanisms of of modern racism....gentrification, education quality and availability, the drug war, for profit prisons, 3 strikes, mandatory minimums, etc. When you remove the roots of inequality racism doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Here's an FB comment I made last night in response to a black friends post on wanting to understand why white people don't understand why the black community is upset and as well the voting protection act coming under fire....

They don't get it because they don't understand it or want to, they happily accept the rhetoric and think that because they did alright everyone can do alright. They think wrongly that crime is born of character and not of conditions. They think wrongly that everyone has the foundations of previous generations to build upon. All they know is their own fear at the 1,000 yard stare of a man hardened by hardship and violence, a man who has no stake in the system and who receives no protection from the system.

Those same white Americans are too naive to be outraged at Florida's broken law, at the conditions of our educational system, our for profit prison system, our crippling drug war, the state of our cities, unemployment, the skills gap, corporate tax dodging, the surveillance state, the price of war that could be spent on the people and infrastructure, 40 years of stagnant wages, voter suppression.... All they know is black and white, us and them.

They can't even see that their homes, their living wages, their safety and security, their own say in the world are next.

I don't think government should legislate based on race (justice is blindfolded after all) but the voting rights act protects everyone, and what is good for black america is good for all of america and until the state fixes all the grievous injustices and inequities I just listed I will stand in support of the voting rights act or any other act that protects the proletariat form oppression/suppression. Where these people even awake last year? last minute voter ID? Early voting killed? Inner city lines and 18 page ballots?!..now is not the time.

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19-07-2013, 11:14 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
I am part of white America and I object to you characterizing me as such. I think your statement branding "white" america is unfounded and based on certain individuals / groups how are getting the pulpit after the media storm of the GZ case. On a similar note I disagree with Chris Matthews apologizing on behalf of "white" people for the Zimmerman verdict. Fuck him.

I will agree with you that the existence of groups such as the NAACP by themselves are not discriminatory. I'll also agree with you regarding the intent differences b/t the NAACP and the KKK although I'll have to admit I don't know much about the KKK and their stated purpose other than from news stories and jackasses like David Duke. I do find it odd that realistically I could not form a similar intentioned group for white people in the US without the media and others branding it as racist even if it wasn't at all. Double standards are unfair no matter how you look at it.

I will disagree however that some of the policies (e.g. quotas and affirmative action) are the perfect solution. Recently the Supreme Court ruled that UT's admissions could use race as an admission criteria but added on a legal standard that required that no other non-race system was feasible. So while a minor victory at first for affirmative action, this is far from done.

The problem to me is that affinity to a race group is too strong in the world's cultures. I don't ever think of myself as "white". I don't know if other people ever think of themselves as their race, I'll let them speak for themselves. The promulgation and support of race affinity groups perpetuate the notion (to me at least) that groups/races are different. I see race similar to religion in that both are evidence that we as humans have a long way to go to improve ourselves because they are both way too impactful in our cultures. I wish more people saw beyond the fairy tales or some racial attribute that differentiates and just freakin evaluated someone as the person without the baggage. An individual may still be an asshole or a thief or ignorant but they may not be.
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19-07-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
@Devil's: It's very easy for white person in America to say that they don't identify themselves as being white. I'd LOVE to do that if it weren't for constant reminders that I'm a ching chonging, wah tahing, math wiz of an Asian. And I left out the small penis thing...

As for this race thing, I have never agreed with the existence of these racial groups like the NAACP. As Devil pointed out, what if white people formed a group like that? I guarantee that the black community would give them a world of shit for it. And where is the Asian equivalent of this group? Where are my lead Asian actors? Where are my Asian shows and channels? They are few and far in between. All we get is Kung Fu shit, anime, and Margaret Cho. Maybe there was a time when a group like this was needed for blacks, but that's no longer the case.

I have no qualms with saying that Black people pull the race card too much. And to be completely honest with you... most of the racial comments and stereotypes I receive are from blacks. Ironic huh?

But I wholeheartedly agree with the correlation between poverty and race. People in the ghetto DO NOT have the same opportunities as us. Well, technically they do, but one thing is certain... it is far harder for them to utilize these opportunities.

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19-07-2013, 02:48 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
I personally think the human race is superior to the formicidae race. Does that make me a racist? Consider

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19-07-2013, 05:21 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
If it is all about economic status then why is it all about race?
Why are the scholarships 'Valid for use by one African American'?
Why are they not 'Valid for use by one Poverty Stricken Person'?

Quote:I have no qualms with saying that Black people pull the race card too much. And to be completely honest with you... most of the racial comments and stereotypes I receive are from blacks. Ironic huh?

This.
I've always said that the black folk in America are by far the biggest racists in your country.

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19-07-2013, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2013 05:49 PM by amyb.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 11:14 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I do find it odd that realistically I could not form a similar intentioned group for white people in the US without the media and others branding it as racist even if it wasn't at all. Double standards are unfair no matter how you look at it.

The reason it would be seen in a negative light is because white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement." The existence of NAACP (as well as groups for other minorities such as women and gays) has to do with that specific group being discriminated against. If you form an organization for the "advancement of white people," what exactly are you fighting for? Rights you already have? So yes, if someone makes a group for the rights of the majority (not an oppressed minority) people will naturally assume it's to take away rights of minorities or to claim superiority. Those groups mentioned are fighting against discrimination because they are minorities and want equal rights, equal pay, equal treatment.
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19-07-2013, 05:52 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 05:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 11:14 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I do find it odd that realistically I could not form a similar intentioned group for white people in the US without the media and others branding it as racist even if it wasn't at all. Double standards are unfair no matter how you look at it.

The reason it would be seen in a negative light is because white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement." The existence of NAACP (as well as groups for other minorities such as women and gays) has to do with that specific group being discriminated against. If you form an organization for the "advancement of white people," what exactly are you fighting for? Rights you already have? So yes, if someone makes a group for the rights of the majority (not an oppressed minority) people will naturally assume it's to take away rights of minorities or to claim superiority.

I have a couple of groups that White people can form in mind...

1) One that forms to fight the stereotype that White people are racists and discriminate against Blacks

2) White Entertainment Channel - Why not? Is BET supposed to push for anti-discrimination?

Like I said, there was a real need for organizations like NAACP in the past. Not anymore. Especially now that America has elected a half Black president. Let's elect an Asian one now please.

BET on the other hand was a joke from the start. I picture MLK Jr facepalming at BET.

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19-07-2013, 06:20 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2013 06:26 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 05:21 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  If it is all about economic status then why is it all about race?
Why are the scholarships 'Valid for use by one African American'?
Why are they not 'Valid for use by one Poverty Stricken Person'?

Quote:I have no qualms with saying that Black people pull the race card too much. And to be completely honest with you... most of the racial comments and stereotypes I receive are from blacks. Ironic huh?

This.
I've always said that the black folk in America are by far the biggest racists in your country.

So you have to remember that this is the US folks, it's the capitol of capitalism... Large scale socioeconomic changes are branded as 'evil socialism' and opposed not only by the right but also pretty much every major campaign contributor except the dwindling unions on the left. This means that it is very hard to pass a bill that raises the minimum wage, relaxes interest rates on student loans, or alters the tax code in favor of the poor non home owner. However passing a bill that grants a few scholarship to a few minority kids is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier (and a heck of a lot less effective) than fixing inner city public schools or pulling peoples daddies out of prison, and yet it still looks great in a campaign ad aimed at minority voters. These guys are thinking in 6 year increments, they need a bullet point not long slow progress.

My school had to report and I believe openly publish minority grant grades (I don't think by name) on the intranet somewhere and let me tell you when I updated that page...abismal F,F,D,D,D,D,C,D,D,D,D,D,B,C,C, these poor kids aren't even ready for college and this is the inner city's best in class we are talking about here.

It is totally economic. At some point you have to begin to understand that it is the gentrification of the inner city, the gaping wounds left in the wake of the manufacturing industry biopsy, the explosion of suburbia relocating jobs that leaves the black community grasping at straws trying to support itself. Through to the 50's black where forced to live in certain neighborhoods and could only afford to live in certain neighborhoods...heck the neighboring town (which is NORTH of the masson dixon) didn't allow blacks to purchase homes until a family in the 70's bought one. They where corralled into pockets far from the best jobs. Collapsing into crime and violence, the deterioration of the community as tax revenue failed, mothers working multiple low paying jobs, fathers in prison, crack flooding the streets is all just the natural result of economic collapse.

If life was a race the black man would starting 200 yards back.

(19-07-2013 05:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 11:14 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I do find it odd that realistically I could not form a similar intentioned group for white people in the US without the media and others branding it as racist even if it wasn't at all. Double standards are unfair no matter how you look at it.

The reason it would be seen in a negative light is because white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement." The existence of NAACP (as well as groups for other minorities such as women and gays) has to do with that specific group being discriminated against. If you form an organization for the "advancement of white people," what exactly are you fighting for? Rights you already have? So yes, if someone makes a group for the rights of the majority (not an oppressed minority) people will naturally assume it's to take away rights of minorities or to claim superiority.

All people have a rights protection group it's called the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union). In an ideal situation this should be sufficient all around. It doesn't really matter anyway what is good for black American is good for 98% of white America provided that the politicians don't take the needed revenue out of the wrong income bracket, and instead enforce corporate tax evasion law or cut porked up no bid war contracts, or something constructive like that.

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19-07-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 05:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 11:14 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I do find it odd that realistically I could not form a similar intentioned group for white people in the US without the media and others branding it as racist even if it wasn't at all. Double standards are unfair no matter how you look at it.

The reason it would be seen in a negative light is because white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement." The existence of NAACP (as well as groups for other minorities such as women and gays) has to do with that specific group being discriminated against. If you form an organization for the "advancement of white people," what exactly are you fighting for? Rights you already have? So yes, if someone makes a group for the rights of the majority (not an oppressed minority) people will naturally assume it's to take away rights of minorities or to claim superiority. Those groups mentioned are fighting against discrimination because they are minorities and want equal rights, equal pay, equal treatment.

Hold your horses amyb! Why are you saying "white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement.""? There are people of of colors creeds, etc. who are not given the same access to the same opportunities as others. If you don't believe me, come take a look in the rural south...the hillbillies. Mostly white, most feel they have no hope to be truly successful. They can farm, deal drugs, or take whatever menial job they can find. Many turn to thievery, moon shining, drug-dealing, searching the roadsides for scrap-metal, whatever.

Some groups may want equal rights and wages, etc., but many others want "reverse discrimination", which is just another way of saying, discrimination. This is a non-sense solution. You know what happens when you fight fire with fire? You get a big fucking fire.

No offense intended.

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