Poll: Is it racist to NOT hire someone specifically because of their race and to only hire people of the same race?
Yes
No
No opinion
[Show Results]
 
Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-07-2013, 07:16 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 07:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Nope, actions in themselves are not inherently racist unless the reason behind them is racist.

I am not saying actions are inherently racist. I am saying that this particular individual, your boss, is engaging in a racist action.

(25-07-2013 07:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Racist is a hate term, he is not being hateful towards Indians, thus it's not racist.

I'm sorry, but that is not the definition of racism. I suggest you stop attempting to redefine the word. Drinking Beverage

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
Quote:I am not saying actions are inherently racist.

yet...

Quote:I am saying that this particular individual, your boss, is engaging in a racist action.

I guess then prompts me to ask "would you like a side of fuck you to go with your contradiction".

told you I'd steal it

Quote:I'm sorry, but that is not the definition of racism. I suggest you stop attempting to redefine the word. Coffeedrinker

Actually, dictionary.com defines racism as "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. ".

Drinking Beverage

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 07:28 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 07:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:I am not saying actions are inherently racist.

yet...

Quote:I am saying that this particular individual, your boss, is engaging in a racist action.

I guess then prompts me to ask "would you like a side of fuck you to go with your contradiction".

told you I'd steal it

Quote:I'm sorry, but that is not the definition of racism. I suggest you stop attempting to redefine the word. Coffeedrinker

Actually, dictionary.com defines racism as "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. ".

Drinking Beverage

Let me get this straight.

Store owner doesn't hire Indians because his customers don't like Indians.

The customers are racists.

The store owner is a pragmatic meta-racist.

Right?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  yet...


I guess then prompts me to ask "would you like a side of fuck you to go with your contradiction".

told you I'd steal it


Actually, dictionary.com defines racism as "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. ".

Drinking Beverage

Let me get this straight.

Store owner doesn't hire Indians because his customers don't like Indians.

The customers are racists.

The store owner is a pragmatic meta-racist.

Right?

To be honest the example with boss is just an example/metaphor to my actual argument that something might appear to be racist but isn't.

You bringing up meta-racism is a perfect example of this and a good opportunity to further my point.

Friends joke with each other all the time. Look at TTA, we do it all the time.
The bloody Scot, the sheep-shagging Kiwi, the stupid yank etc...

This is exactly what I mean.
These can be considered racist actions (and yes I see your point about actions being racist Logica, I was not so correct in my rebuttal to that particular point however..) as they are racial insults but they're not racist for the same reason my boss hiring white people isn't racist.
Because the reason/intention isn't racist.
Those insults between friends are in good fun/humor. That does not mean you have explicit racial hatred towards that person and it doesn't make you a racist.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 08:03 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 07:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  To be honest the example with boss is just an example/metaphor to my actual argument that something might appear to be racist but isn't.

But your boss' actions are racist because he is discriminating against a specific ethnic group.

(25-07-2013 07:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You bringing up meta-racism is a perfect example of this and a good opportunity to further my point.

Go on. Drinking Beverage

(25-07-2013 07:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Friends joke with each other all the time. Look at TTA, we do it all the time.
The bloody Scot, the sheep-shagging Kiwi, the stupid yank etc...

New Zealanders are not a race of people. Drinking Beverage

(25-07-2013 07:44 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  This is exactly what I mean.
These can be considered racist actions (and yes I see your point about actions being racist Logica, I was not so correct in my rebuttal to that particular point however..) as they are racial insults but they're not racist for the same reason my boss hiring white people isn't racist.
Because the reason/intention isn't racist.
Those insults between friends are in good fun/humor. That does not mean you have explicit racial hatred towards that person and it doesn't make you a racist.

I don't understand what you are getting at here. They are called racist jokes, it is not as though we deny that they don't have a racial element to them. I, personally, am okay with jokes because they do not prevent the livelihood of an entire "race".

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 08:07 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2013 08:11 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 07:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I guess then prompts me to ask "would you like a side of fuck you to go with your contradiction".

There is no contradiction, so would like a side of fuck you to along with your inaccuracy? You stated that not all actions are inherently racist. I agreed with you. However, I said that your boss' specific action of racial prejudice is racist.

(25-07-2013 07:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Actually, dictionary.com defines racism as "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. ".

Drinking Beverage

Let's not leave the first two definitions out next time. Drinking Beverage

Quote:racism rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

[Image: 3q58ii.jpg]

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 08:54 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(25-07-2013 06:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Are you being so obviously stupid on this TBD because of some white guilt thing?

You clearly do not understand what the term "racist" means because if you did then you wouldn't throw it around so flippantly.
"Racist" is a hate term, you can hire a white person over an Indian for reasons other then hate towards Indians.
But you seem to not be able to comprehend this simple concept.

I see it all the time, especially Black people doing it. They see something between two different races and instantly profile it as racist without acquiring all the facts. That's what you are doing TBD, you just see the action but bother not to look at the reason for said action.

I wonder how this conversation would have played out if it was a minority "being racist" towards a majority? Consider

The only asinine thing here TBD, is you.
The same actions can have different reasons.

Saying you're right and exclaiming it to be true, doesn't make it so. Racist is a term based on prejudice by race. Sure, someone can make it about hate too. Did you not say "I've always said that the black folk in America are by far the biggest racists in your country." You think they are the biggest racists because they hate white people, or because they have been and currently are, discriminated against? Are they or are they not racist? Are they only racist towards white people?

You said
"When I worked in the gas station my boss only hired white people. The other gas stations in town all had full Indian staff.
I can't remember how many times people commented to me about how they came to the gas station I worked at for that exact reason.
Is that racist or is that wanting to understand the person behind the counter and support local business?"


That is racist. Because you also admit
"But yea, if an Indian guy came in for an interview I knew there was no way he was gonna be hired."
It doesn't appear to matter what his qualifications are or how well he speaks english. You KNEW once an indian guy walked through the door looking for a job, your boss would never hire him.

"I don't think people have/had anything against Indian people..."

That's naive and stupid. Come over here to the US and ask someone about India or Indians and you'll get the same response as if you had asked about Mexico or Mexicans. The ol' "They took our jobs!!!" Apparently the sentiments are no different where you live as people come to that gas station BECAUSE it has no Indians.

You also said of Indians
"They also lacked manners which I think is probably a cultural thing."

That is a prejudiced assumption. Sure, it might be cultural, but ALL manners are. Welcome to the world.

"That isn't to say people hated Indians or had anything against Indians, it's just a simple matter of pleasant-er shopping experience."

People said the same damn thing about segregated restaurants. "It isn't racist, they can have their own places to eat and we can have a more pleasant experience."

"And why is it pushing it? It was my bosses business, why should his business suffer by hiring Indians when he could prevent that by hiring white people."

Because furthering racial prejudice doesn't benefit anyone in the long run. If we take the US for example, the demographics are shifting rather quickly towards a non-white majority. If racial prejudice such as this (which happens in the US too) continues, it will continue at the expense of everyone in the future too. An Indian opens up a store and only hires Indians and a black guy opens a store and only hires black guys. Both are examples of promoting racial stereotypes. And if it is under the guise of "good business" that is absurd. What that really means is "good for the business of white people/making money off of white people." It would be the same way if the hiring is based off of race for non-whites too.

"People didn't want to be served by Indians because of one or more of the following:
- Hard to understand. Plus it's a horrible accent.
- Not.. 'native' to NZ
- They just don't like Indians
- They want to support local business
- They just don't like Indians
- They don't want arm hair in their ice creams
- They don't want to leave the gas station with a craving for curry"


Hard to understand? An American or a Brit could be hard to understand when speaking English in New Zealand and a New Zealander could be hard to understand here. The real reason is the subjective opinion that you admit when you say it is a "horrible accent." That is straight-up prejudiced. To YOU, it is a horrible accent. I don't have a problem understanding them at all. I find it pretty good actually when compared with some accents that are out there (the worst offender is redneck slang, which is basically just appalling grammar).

Not "native" to NZ? Wouldn't the Maori be the only actual Natives?

"They just don't like Indians." Are you really naive enough to think it isn't because of their race?

If an Indian owns a local shoppe, it's a local business.

I'm not addressing the last 2 as they were either poor attempts at sarcastic humor, or are so racist they don't deserve to be addressed.

"Indian's speak very good english. It's the accent that makes it near impossible to understand..."
Then the problem isn't the Indians, it's the people listening to them.

"I'm telling you that the majority of my home town favor white people to Indian people.
Doesn't mean they are racist towards Indians."


You specifically say they "don't like" them. That. Is. Racist.


I'm going to stop combing through every post you made to display the racist and ignorant comments. I'll address one last point you ask.

"Are you being so obviously stupid on this TBD because of some white guilt thing?"

Firstly, insults are not going to win you any points or lend you any credibility. And it isn't "white guilt." It is the same argument I would make for free speech. If any racism is allowed to continue, then it will continue and has the potential to directly impact me and limit my freedoms. Meaning that as demographics shift in this country (or any), discrimination that isn't directed at me currently, could affect me in the future.

It's not about being guilty, it's about standing up for the civil rights of everyone because I am part of that group known as "everyone."

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 09:06 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
And here is another important point to note. The poll of public opinion is sometimes one that can be ignored because people are often stupid. But, as I already said, a racist will never admit they are a racist. It is the poll of public opinion that decides when something is or isn't racist. I don't think the poll of public opinion has been in your favor on the forum.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
I figure if I am going to mention the poll of public opinion, I might as well make a public opinion poll Thumbsup

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 09:22 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 09:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I figure if I am going to mention the poll of public opinion, I might as well make a public opinion poll Thumbsup

Yabut, there are exceptions.

If I am casting the parts in a play about race, for instance, race is a factor.

Unless, of course, I'm a post-modernist, ironic director. Big Grin

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: