Poll: Is it racist to NOT hire someone specifically because of their race and to only hire people of the same race?
Yes
No
No opinion
[Show Results]
 
Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-07-2013, 07:57 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(22-07-2013 07:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 05:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Sounds racist to me. Now, it may be in part what you say as far as clientele choosing places to go because of ethnicity. So maybe it's better to say it enabled racism as opposed to saying was actively racist.

No you're not seeing the facts.
I don't think people have/had anything against Indian people...
It's just that they are hard to understand. That is a fact.
They also lacked manners which I think is probably a cultural thing.

That isn't to say people hated Indians or had anything against Indians, it's just a simple matter of pleasant-er shopping experience.

It's like if you get a massage. Some people prefer a man to do it or some people prefer a women to do it. It doesn't mean you have ill feelings towards the other sex, it's just a matter of personal preference.

Quote:That practice is pushing it. Were the Indian employees unqualified for the position?

It's pumping gas...
And why is it pushing it? It was my bosses business, why should his business suffer by hiring Indians when he could prevent that by hiring white people.

I'm not racist; I'm 'specist'! All humans suck until proven otherwise. I was about to post something funny about that, but all the attacks on Muff's boss is just ridiculous! 4+ pages of that shit!
Are the customers racist assholes? Probably. Is the boss racist for catering to racist assholes who would otherwise find some other all-white establishment to spend their money in? No. Asshole? Maybe.
Boss might have a loved one to support, kids to feed, or aging parents to take care of. Which probably requires money....that has to be made in the real world where people don't always hold hands and sing songs together! Are YOU going to send this guy money to take up the slack in lost business dollars over a change in hiring policy? If you knew for a fact that you would have more money being poured into your business by employing only whites would you not hire only whites? Or blacks, or yellows, or greens for that matter; like the post about catering to people wanting an "authentic" feel at an Asian restaurant by hiring only Asians to prepare the customer's sushi. Sure, some would employ one of every color and culture regardless how it might actually hurt their business, but not everyone has the superior righteousness required to put doing humanity a favor above accumulating enough money in the bank just in case a family member they love unexpectedly gets sick.
So if Muff's boss is hiring only white people solely based on the amount of money doing so would net him, then he might be a greedy, capitalist pig taking advantage of racist assholes, but HE isn't one until he admits that he ALSO does it because he thinks Indians suck!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 08:11 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 07:57 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 07:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No you're not seeing the facts.
I don't think people have/had anything against Indian people...
It's just that they are hard to understand. That is a fact.
They also lacked manners which I think is probably a cultural thing.

That isn't to say people hated Indians or had anything against Indians, it's just a simple matter of pleasant-er shopping experience.

It's like if you get a massage. Some people prefer a man to do it or some people prefer a women to do it. It doesn't mean you have ill feelings towards the other sex, it's just a matter of personal preference.


It's pumping gas...
And why is it pushing it? It was my bosses business, why should his business suffer by hiring Indians when he could prevent that by hiring white people.

I'm not racist; I'm 'specist'! All humans suck until proven otherwise. I was about to post something funny about that, but all the attacks on Muff's boss is just ridiculous! 4+ pages of that shit!
Are the customers racist assholes? Probably. Is the boss racist for catering to racist assholes who would otherwise find some other all-white establishment to spend their money in? No. Asshole? Maybe.
Boss might have a loved one to support, kids to feed, or aging parents to take care of. Which probably requires money....that has to be made in the real world where people don't always hold hands and sing songs together! Are YOU going to send this guy money to take up the slack in lost business dollars over a change in hiring policy? If you knew for a fact that you would have more money being poured into your business by employing only whites would you not hire only whites? Or blacks, or yellows, or greens for that matter; like the post about catering to people wanting an "authentic" feel at an Asian restaurant by hiring only Asians to prepare the customer's sushi. Sure, some would employ one of every color and culture regardless how it might actually hurt their business, but not everyone has the superior righteousness required to put doing humanity a favor above accumulating enough money in the bank just in case a family member they love unexpectedly gets sick.
So if Muff's boss is hiring only white people solely based on the amount of money doing so would net him, then he might be a greedy, capitalist pig taking advantage of racist assholes, but HE isn't one until he admits that he ALSO does it because he thinks Indians suck!

It's still racism. It's like being a train conductor during the holocaust, you are not actively gassing people but you are driving the train that takes them to the chambers. Sure you have no choice and it was this or starve or get killed at Normandy or Stalingrad or w/e but you still have to live with driving that train.

...Never the less just another example of why you can't legislate based on race. Fix the inner city, fix education, fix incarceration, end the drug war and you will save the black man.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 09:35 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 08:11 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:57 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  I'm not racist; I'm 'specist'! All humans suck until proven otherwise. I was about to post something funny about that, but all the attacks on Muff's boss is just ridiculous! 4+ pages of that shit!
Are the customers racist assholes? Probably. Is the boss racist for catering to racist assholes who would otherwise find some other all-white establishment to spend their money in? No. Asshole? Maybe.
Boss might have a loved one to support, kids to feed, or aging parents to take care of. Which probably requires money....that has to be made in the real world where people don't always hold hands and sing songs together! Are YOU going to send this guy money to take up the slack in lost business dollars over a change in hiring policy? If you knew for a fact that you would have more money being poured into your business by employing only whites would you not hire only whites? Or blacks, or yellows, or greens for that matter; like the post about catering to people wanting an "authentic" feel at an Asian restaurant by hiring only Asians to prepare the customer's sushi. Sure, some would employ one of every color and culture regardless how it might actually hurt their business, but not everyone has the superior righteousness required to put doing humanity a favor above accumulating enough money in the bank just in case a family member they love unexpectedly gets sick.
So if Muff's boss is hiring only white people solely based on the amount of money doing so would net him, then he might be a greedy, capitalist pig taking advantage of racist assholes, but HE isn't one until he admits that he ALSO does it because he thinks Indians suck!

It's still racism. It's like being a train conductor during the holocaust, you are not actively gassing people but you are driving the train that takes them to the chambers. Sure you have no choice and it was this or starve or get killed at Normandy or Stalingrad or w/e but you still have to live with driving that train.

...Never the less just another example of why you can't legislate based on race. Fix the inner city, fix education, fix incarceration, end the drug war and you will save the black man.

Yes. But (I think) someone implied that the BossMan was racist. IT is racist, but HE is not. If the gestapo had your children, you'd swear to the fuhrer you hated jews (were racist) too, even though you actually didn't (were not), if only for their safety. And as far as dilemmas go, deciding to send all Indian applicants away to possibly put in their app at the gas station down the street (that hires only Indians), isn't nearly as calamitous a problem as having to decide whether to transport millions of people to their possibly painful deaths! If the 2 situations are perfectly interchangeable variables in your equation for calculating someone's status as "racist", you need a new equation IMO. If not for the difference in severity of the act, then in the reasons for carrying it out. The gas station guy might do it to put food on the table, or fatten his pockets, but no one's life comes to an end! The train conductor does what he does either because he hates those people enough to kill them, or his whole family gets raped, torchered, then murdered if he doesn't do it. The latter is an impossible situation and I don't think it should be trivialized Angry !

On a lighter note Confused
Isn't fixing only the inner-city education system a bit....discriminatory? I kid I kid Tongue
Consider ...but maybe not. If it doesn't matter whether the minority applicants have PhD's, because the majority customers don't want to be served by a minority, then maybe the focus should be on educating suburban school kids that inner-city kids are people, too Smile

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 09:51 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2013 10:01 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 09:35 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 08:11 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  It's still racism. It's like being a train conductor during the holocaust, you are not actively gassing people but you are driving the train that takes them to the chambers. Sure you have no choice and it was this or starve or get killed at Normandy or Stalingrad or w/e but you still have to live with driving that train.

...Never the less just another example of why you can't legislate based on race. Fix the inner city, fix education, fix incarceration, end the drug war and you will save the black man.

Yes. But (I think) someone implied that the BossMan was racist. IT is racist, but HE is not. If the gestapo had your children, you'd swear to the fuhrer you hated jews (were racist) too, even though you actually didn't (were not), if only for their safety. And as far as dilemmas go, deciding to send all Indian applicants away to possibly put in their app at the gas station down the street (that hires only Indians), isn't nearly as calamitous a problem as having to decide whether to transport millions of people to their possibly painful deaths! If the 2 situations are perfectly interchangeable variables in your equation for calculating someone's status as "racist", you need a new equation IMO. If not for the difference in severity of the act, then in the reasons for carrying it out. The gas station guy might do it to put food on the table, or fatten his pockets, but no one's life comes to an end! The train conductor does what he does either because he hates those people enough to kill them, or his whole family gets raped, torchered, then murdered if he doesn't do it. The latter is an impossible situation and I don't think it should be trivialized Angry !

On a lighter note Confused
Isn't fixing only the inner-city education system a bit....discriminatory? I kid I kid Tongue
Consider ...but maybe not. If it doesn't matter whether the minority applicants have PhD's, because the majority customers don't want to be served by a minority, then maybe the focus should be on educating suburban school kids that inner-city kids are people, too Smile

The same type of defense could be used to justify anything. "I murdered a guy once cause he owed my boss Tony money. I didn't want to murder Vinnie, but Tony knows where I live and Vinnie is a nobody." I choose the holocaust to make make it more vivid for you. It works just as well for little things. "I laughed at the special needs kid in class today because everyone else did and I didn't want to be a target, but I'm not a bully."

And saying the station owner is not racist even as he is committing what you admit to be a racist acts. It is like saying "I murdered a guy once. I'm not a murderer." At some point you need to own up to the sum of your actions and inactions. Committing racist acts doesn't make you horrible though, not so long as you recognize the fact and attempt in earnest to avoid such actions(indoctrination does not simply vanish overnight). 'The lord is always willing to forgive.' (well some rational secular moral shit akin to that)

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 10:54 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 09:51 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 09:35 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Yes. But (I think) someone implied that the BossMan was racist. IT is racist, but HE is not. If the gestapo had your children, you'd swear to the fuhrer you hated jews (were racist) too, even though you actually didn't (were not), if only for their safety. And as far as dilemmas go, deciding to send all Indian applicants away to possibly put in their app at the gas station down the street (that hires only Indians), isn't nearly as calamitous a problem as having to decide whether to transport millions of people to their possibly painful deaths! If the 2 situations are perfectly interchangeable variables in your equation for calculating someone's status as "racist", you need a new equation IMO. If not for the difference in severity of the act, then in the reasons for carrying it out. The gas station guy might do it to put food on the table, or fatten his pockets, but no one's life comes to an end! The train conductor does what he does either because he hates those people enough to kill them, or his whole family gets raped, torchered, then murdered if he doesn't do it. The latter is an impossible situation and I don't think it should be trivialized Angry !

On a lighter note Confused
Isn't fixing only the inner-city education system a bit....discriminatory? I kid I kid Tongue
Consider ...but maybe not. If it doesn't matter whether the minority applicants have PhD's, because the majority customers don't want to be served by a minority, then maybe the focus should be on educating suburban school kids that inner-city kids are people, too Smile

The same type of defense could be used to justify anything. "I murdered a guy once cause he owed my boss Tony money. I didn't want to murder Vinnie, but Tony knows where I live and Vinnie is a nobody." I choose the holocaust to make make it more vivid for you. It works just as well for little things. "I laughed at the special needs kid in class today because everyone else did and I didn't want to be a target, but I'm not a bully."

And saying the station owner is not racist even as he is committing what you admit to be a racist acts. It is like saying "I murdered a guy once. I'm not a murderer." At some point you need to own up to the sum of your actions and inactions. Committing racist acts doesn't make you horrible though, not so long as you recognize the fact and attempt in earnest to avoid such actions(indoctrination does not simply vanish overnight). 'The lord is always willing to forgive.' (well some rational secular moral shit akin to that)

*hypothetical me*
If I (a white person) were to hire nothing but Hispanics because I could save money, I would "own up" to my actions. However, saying that I did so because I'm racist against all non-hispanics (aside from being ridiculous) would be untrue! The truth is: I did it for the money, AND if I found out that tomorrow I could save even more money by employing nothing but Asians, the Hispanics would get the shaft! Which is basically me "playing the game", and IT is racist, but I am not.

Until the education you speak of changes that "game", there are going to be people who could not possibly give any less of a rat's ass what color a person is, that will play it. If you can't distinguish between the person who chooses a color (possibly even other than their own) for money, and the person who chooses color based on their belief that their own is best, then you simply don't know the difference between a true racist, and a mere complete asshole!

A mafia don who has ordered 187 people murdered over his tenure isn't made a good guy by donating to the local soup kitchen. Nice gesture, still bad guy. Likewise for the good guy doing something bad. And yes, most definitely, the distinction should always be made between those who do it because they believe it, or love it, and those who do it because they are, or feel they are, forced to!
Fix the uppity white folk customers, or get over a non-racist human's ability to adapt to demand in order to survive/thrive/eat!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 10:54 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 09:51 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  The same type of defense could be used to justify anything. "I murdered a guy once cause he owed my boss Tony money. I didn't want to murder Vinnie, but Tony knows where I live and Vinnie is a nobody." I choose the holocaust to make make it more vivid for you. It works just as well for little things. "I laughed at the special needs kid in class today because everyone else did and I didn't want to be a target, but I'm not a bully."

And saying the station owner is not racist even as he is committing what you admit to be a racist acts. It is like saying "I murdered a guy once. I'm not a murderer." At some point you need to own up to the sum of your actions and inactions. Committing racist acts doesn't make you horrible though, not so long as you recognize the fact and attempt in earnest to avoid such actions(indoctrination does not simply vanish overnight). 'The lord is always willing to forgive.' (well some rational secular moral shit akin to that)

*hypothetical me*
If I (a white person) were to hire nothing but Hispanics because I could save money, I would "own up" to my actions. However, saying that I did so because I'm racist against all non-hispanics (aside from being ridiculous) would be untrue! The truth is: I did it for the money, AND if I found out that tomorrow I could save even more money by employing nothing but Asians, the Hispanics would get the shaft! Which is basically me "playing the game", and IT is racist, but I am not.

Until the education you speak of changes that "game", there are going to be people who could not possibly give any less of a rat's ass what color a person is, that will play it. If you can't distinguish between the person who chooses a color (possibly even other than their own) for money, and the person who chooses color based on their belief that their own is best, then you simply don't know the difference between a true racist, and a mere complete asshole!

A mafia don who has ordered 187 people murdered over his tenure isn't made a good guy by donating to the local soup kitchen. Nice gesture, still bad guy. Likewise for the good guy doing something bad. And yes, most definitely, the distinction should always be made between those who do it because they believe it, or love it, and those who do it because they are, or feel they are, forced to!
Fix the uppity white folk customers, or get over a non-racist human's ability to adapt to demand in order to survive/thrive/eat!

Not trying to say that swaying to your local market via discrimination makes you a KKK , Neo Nazi, skin head, American History X level racist...but you have to take some responsibility to enabling the system.

I work for a marketing company that makes websites for big pharma, I think some pharma companies are the scummy as hell... I admit that I'm enabling them and it weighs on me...and I think if I was that station owner kicking that well qualified Indian man to the curb would way on me too.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2013, 11:35 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 11:01 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 10:54 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  *hypothetical me*
If I (a white person) were to hire nothing but Hispanics because I could save money, I would "own up" to my actions. However, saying that I did so because I'm racist against all non-hispanics (aside from being ridiculous) would be untrue! The truth is: I did it for the money, AND if I found out that tomorrow I could save even more money by employing nothing but Asians, the Hispanics would get the shaft! Which is basically me "playing the game", and IT is racist, but I am not.

Until the education you speak of changes that "game", there are going to be people who could not possibly give any less of a rat's ass what color a person is, that will play it. If you can't distinguish between the person who chooses a color (possibly even other than their own) for money, and the person who chooses color based on their belief that their own is best, then you simply don't know the difference between a true racist, and a mere complete asshole!

A mafia don who has ordered 187 people murdered over his tenure isn't made a good guy by donating to the local soup kitchen. Nice gesture, still bad guy. Likewise for the good guy doing something bad. And yes, most definitely, the distinction should always be made between those who do it because they believe it, or love it, and those who do it because they are, or feel they are, forced to!
Fix the uppity white folk customers, or get over a non-racist human's ability to adapt to demand in order to survive/thrive/eat!

Not trying to say that swaying to your local market via discrimination makes you a KKK , Neo Nazi, skin head, American History X level racist...but you have to take some responsibility to enabling the system.

I work for a marketing company that makes websites for big pharma, I think some pharma companies are the scummy as hell... I admit that I'm enabling them and it weighs on me...and I think if I was that station owner kicking that well qualified Indian man to the curb would way on me too.

True dat Tongue
But the first thing I would say to someone I knew was a genuinely decent human being who was beating themselves up over being forced to make a bad decision would be that it wasn't actually their decision. It was the decision of whoever, or whatever, forced them to make it. Which in this case would be the collective attitude of the society surrounding the gas station guy. And, again, he might actually be a complete asshole so I'm ONLY defending the possibility he might not be racist Tongue If he is a bigot may he be eaten alive by a pack of angry Tasmanian Devils Evil_monster I kid, I kid.
If someone has to hire a less qualified person thanks to race/color, or risk being fired themselves, but feels guilt stricken over having to do it, I feel less comfortable labeling them "racist" than I do labeling them "survivalist", ya know.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 03:33 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(25-07-2013 11:35 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  True dat Tongue
But the first thing I would say to someone I knew was a genuinely decent human being who was beating themselves up over being forced to make a bad decision would be that it wasn't actually their decision. It was the decision of whoever, or whatever, forced them to make it. Which in this case would be the collective attitude of the society surrounding the gas station guy. And, again, he might actually be a complete asshole so I'm ONLY defending the possibility he might not be racist Tongue If he is a bigot may he be eaten alive by a pack of angry Tasmanian Devils Evil_monster I kid, I kid.
If someone has to hire a less qualified person thanks to race/color, or risk being fired themselves, but feels guilt stricken over having to do it, I feel less comfortable labeling them "racist" than I do labeling them "survivalist", ya know.

Earmuff's gas station boss has all the freedom in the world to hire whoever he wants. Drinking Beverage

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 06:54 AM
Re: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
Muffs has also contradicted your explanation by saying that he believes there is no such thing as a racist action, only racist intentions.

And the people being hired, are of the same ethnicity as the person doing the hiring. And not under the guise of "saving money" but instead, it is to make money off of the white people who don't like Indians who come to that station since there are no Indians.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2013, 08:24 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(26-07-2013 06:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Muffs has also contradicted your explanation by saying that he believes there is no such thing as a racist action, only racist intentions.

And the people being hired, are of the same ethnicity as the person doing the hiring. And not under the guise of "saving money" but instead, it is to make money off of the white people who don't like Indians who come to that station since there are no Indians.

1. I was defending the idea that the gas station guy, himself, isn't a racist. I wasn't defending Muffs! Who would want that job? Dodgy

2. But does that make HIM racist? Does his being white automatically make him racist for hiring only whites no matter the reason? That sounds...discriminatory. If the gas station guy buys a Sushi bar, and only hires Asians to work there, and continues to hire only whites for his gas station, is he then only part-time racist?

Damn it! I wanted to post a Clayton Bigsby vid, but all the Youtube ones are of poor quality Tongue

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: