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Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
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19-07-2013, 08:08 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 07:53 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 05:30 PM)amyb Wrote:  The reason it would be seen in a negative light is because white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement." The existence of NAACP (as well as groups for other minorities such as women and gays) has to do with that specific group being discriminated against. If you form an organization for the "advancement of white people," what exactly are you fighting for? Rights you already have? So yes, if someone makes a group for the rights of the majority (not an oppressed minority) people will naturally assume it's to take away rights of minorities or to claim superiority. Those groups mentioned are fighting against discrimination because they are minorities and want equal rights, equal pay, equal treatment.

Hold your horses amyb! Why are you saying "white people don't NEED an organization for their "advancement.""? There are people of of colors creeds, etc. who are not given the same access to the same opportunities as others. If you don't believe me, come take a look in the rural south...the hillbillies. Mostly white, most feel they have no hope to be truly successful. They can farm, deal drugs, or take whatever menial job they can find. Many turn to thievery, moon shining, drug-dealing, searching the roadsides for scrap-metal, whatever.

Some groups may want equal rights and wages, etc., but many others want "reverse discrimination", which is just another way of saying, discrimination. This is a non-sense solution. You know what happens when you fight fire with fire? You get a big fucking fire.

No offense intended.
As someone else said, the ACLU exists for that purpose. I'm saying white people as a whole don't need a civil rights organization dedicated to just them. You are talking about totally different issues, such as "hillbillies" in the rural south. They aren't poor because they're white or discriminated against, they're poor for geographical reasons or because of lack of education, lack of opportunities, etc.

I really don't think minority rights organizations want reverse discrimination. Maybe some "feminists" on tumblr do, but I doubt most real people who have an influence on things are trying to oppress white, heterosexual men.
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19-07-2013, 08:22 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
Quote:So you have to remember that this is the US folks, it's the capitol of capitalism... Large scale socioeconomic changes are branded as 'evil socialism' and opposed not only by the right but also pretty much every major campaign contributor except the dwindling unions on the left. This means that it is very hard to pass a bill that raises the minimum wage, relaxes interest rates on student loans, or alters the tax code in favor of the poor non home owner. However passing a bill that grants a few scholarship to a few minority kids is a heck of a lot cheaper and easier (and a heck of a lot less effective) than fixing inner city public schools or pulling peoples daddies out of prison, and yet it still looks great in a campaign ad aimed at minority voters. These guys are thinking in 6 year increments, they need a bullet point not long slow progress.

My school had to report and I believe openly publish minority grant grades (I don't think by name) on the intranet somewhere and let me tell you when I updated that page...abismal F,F,D,D,D,D,C,D,D,D,D,D,B,C,C, these poor kids aren't even ready for college and this is the inner city's best in class we are talking about here.

It is totally economic. At some point you have to begin to understand that it is the gentrification of the inner city, the gaping wounds left in the wake of the manufacturing industry biopsy, the explosion of suburbia relocating jobs that leaves the black community grasping at straws trying to support itself. Through to the 50's black where forced to live in certain neighborhoods and could only afford to live in certain neighborhoods...heck the neighboring town (which is NORTH of the masson dixon) didn't allow blacks to purchase homes until a family in the 70's bought one. They where corralled into pockets far from the best jobs. Collapsing into crime and violence, the deterioration of the community as tax revenue failed, mothers working multiple low paying jobs, fathers in prison, crack flooding the streets is all just the natural result of economic collapse.

If life was a race the black man would starting 200 yards back.

So... what you're saying is, screw the poor white people?
You're not understanding what I'm saying (though in your defense I didn't explain it well).

My point is similar to Noah's. Black folk have their equal rights.
As a result things like the NAACP are now redundant.
I understand a want to get people out of poverty and such but you can't target one particular race when all race's are effected.
Sure, some are affected more then others but that doesn't mean the others aren't still affected.

Things like NAACP are not helping the racial segregation.
If you want true equality then you must be done with things like NAACP.
If you want to get people out of poverty and stomp down on racial segregation then you need neutral organizations dedicated to getting ANYONE, no matter what race, out of poverty.

When I was going to university I looked at the scholarships. There was a vast majority for Maori and Pacific Island students. Yes I understand why, they are statistically speaking not as well represented in the university population as they are in the whole population BUT does that mean I'm worth any less? My parents were poor as shit just the same as some poor Maori family. Yet I'm the one having to postpone my university plans in order to work at a fucking gas station for a year in order to save up enough money for the simply reason that I'm white and thus "my opportunities are better" HORSE SHIT they're better... Poor is poor. Poor doesn't discriminate.

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19-07-2013, 08:24 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
To the first point, yes, hillbillies are not discriminated against based on color, however, as a social group they are discriminated against. Not only are they dicriminated against, it is celebrated that they are discriminated against. I've seen it everywhere, to include this forum. It has become a derotory term that is socially acceptable. If I interviewed for the same job as a black person in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles there is a fair chance I would be discriminated against based on my accent alone. I sound like a hillbilly, and hillbillies are seen as racist, stupid, and backwards, or worse. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by people (to their surprise) "You're not stupid". "Hillbilly" isn't a race, but it IS an ethnicity, and one that is routinely discriminated against.

I don't want to offend you, honestly, but I think you are being naive. The reason why there is "reverse discrimination" is because of these groups.

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19-07-2013, 08:34 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2013 08:39 PM by amyb.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:24 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To the first point, yes, hillbillies are not discriminated against based on color, however, as a social group they are discriminated against. Not only are they dicriminated against, it is celebrated that they are discriminated against. I've seen it everywhere, to include this forum. It has become a derotory term that is socially acceptable. If I interviewed for the same job as a black person in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles there is a fair chance I would be discriminated against based on my accent alone. I sound like a hillbilly, and hillbillies are seen as racist, stupid, and backwards, or worse. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by people (to their surprise) "You're not stupid". "Hillbilly" isn't a race, but it IS an ethnicity, and one that is routinely discriminated against.

I don't want to offend you, honestly, but I think you are being naive. The reason why there is "reverse discrimination" is because of these groups.
It is true that there is a stereotype that relates to white people with a southern accent. There are all types of stereotypes, though. What I am saying is that an Organization for the Advancement of White People would not be the answer for this. You are talking about discrimination based largely on association of one's location, whereas the NAACP is talking about all black people, gay rights organizations are talking about all gay people, etc. So maybe a group for the eradication of stereotypes of southerners or something, but that's not the same as "reverse discrimination," and I don't see how this results from minorities trying to achieve equal rights, except for the visible stupid people who fit the stereotype, like my racist southern relatives who also protest gay rights.
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19-07-2013, 08:38 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:34 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 08:24 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To the first point, yes, hillbillies are not discriminated against based on color, however, as a social group they are discriminated against. Not only are they dicriminated against, it is celebrated that they are discriminated against. I've seen it everywhere, to include this forum. It has become a derotory term that is socially acceptable. If I interviewed for the same job as a black person in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles there is a fair chance I would be discriminated against based on my accent alone. I sound like a hillbilly, and hillbillies are seen as racist, stupid, and backwards, or worse. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by people (to their surprise) "You're not stupid". "Hillbilly" isn't a race, but it IS an ethnicity, and one that is routinely discriminated against.

I don't want to offend you, honestly, but I think you are being naive. The reason why there is "reverse discrimination" is because of these groups.
It is true that there is a stereotype that relates to white people with a southern accent. There are all types of stereotypes, though. What I am saying is that an Organization for the Advancement of White People would not be the answer for this.

And the Advancement of Hillbillies, is that the solution in your opinion? If so why? If not, why not?

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19-07-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:38 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  And the Advancement of Hillbillies, is that the solution in your opinion? If so why? If not, why not?

No, because I think the problem is stereotypes and stupidity. I mean, I guess someone could make a group and fund PSAs or something, but a lot of people are judgmental and prone to believing stereotypes they've grown up believing, no matter what. I don't know what the solution is in this case.
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19-07-2013, 08:54 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
So why do you support groups in favor of other races/ethnicity who suffer from stereotypes and stupidity? It makes no sense.

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19-07-2013, 08:58 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:22 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  So... what you're saying is, screw the poor white people?
You're not understanding what I'm saying (though in your defense I didn't explain it well).

My point is similar to Noah's. Black folk have their equal rights.
As a result things like the NAACP are now redundant.
I understand a want to get people out of poverty and such but you can't target one particular race when all race's are effected.
Sure, some are affected more then others but that doesn't mean the others aren't still affected.

Things like NAACP are not helping the racial segregation.
If you want true equality then you must be done with things like NAACP.
If you want to get people out of poverty and stomp down on racial segregation then you need neutral organizations dedicated to getting ANYONE, no matter what race, out of poverty.

When I was going to university I looked at the scholarships. There was a vast majority for Maori and Pacific Island students. Yes I understand why, they are statistically speaking not as well represented in the university population as they are in the whole population BUT does that mean I'm worth any less? My parents were poor as shit just the same as some poor Maori family. Yet I'm the one having to postpone my university plans in order to work at a fucking gas station for a year in order to save up enough money for the simply reason that I'm white and thus "my opportunities are better" HORSE SHIT they're better... Poor is poor. Poor doesn't discriminate.

No if you read my first post I believe that the law should be blind to race/color, but you can't expect a a racial group that has a strong sense of community that has been oppressed for so long to just put the protection of their wellbeing in the hands of others...These groups where born out of the civil rights movement, they where born of blood and suffering. It's only been 2 generations since the civil rights movement and those years have not exactly been kind to the black community.

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(19-07-2013 08:24 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  To the first point, yes, hillbillies are not discriminated against based on color, however, as a social group they are discriminated against. Not only are they dicriminated against, it is celebrated that they are discriminated against. I've seen it everywhere, to include this forum. It has become a derotory term that is socially acceptable. If I interviewed for the same job as a black person in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles there is a fair chance I would be discriminated against based on my accent alone. I sound like a hillbilly, and hillbillies are seen as racist, stupid, and backwards, or worse. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by people (to their surprise) "You're not stupid". "Hillbilly" isn't a race, but it IS an ethnicity, and one that is routinely discriminated against.

I don't want to offend you, honestly, but I think you are being naive. The reason why there is "reverse discrimination" is because of these groups.

Read my last post, it's not the NAACP that causes reverse discrimination it's half assed solutions that barely help anyone. There is enough to go around when you consider that 2% own more than 50% of the wealth in this nation and that we waste billions upon billions on a regular basis.

Have you ever considered that you are being played, like the coal barrens would play the Irish union against the black unions.? That a people divided cannot stand? We have to have a little trust that an organization designed to protect poor black people isn't out to get us.

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19-07-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:54 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  So why do you support groups in favor of other races/ethnicity who suffer from stereotypes and stupidity? It makes no sense.

Yes, it does make sense because we are talking about the entire group being oppressed, though I have no specific experience with seeing any type of white people being discriminated against for being white, specifically. Are you saying that black people shouldn't organize to end discrimination of black people just because some white people also face discrimination? I'm not saying it's impossible that people have stereotypes of some groups of white people, I'm saying that has nothing to do with the fact that black people are discriminated against for being black, and that is why the NAACP (etc.) exist.
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19-07-2013, 09:10 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(19-07-2013 08:58 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Read my last post, it's not the NAACP that causes reverse discrimination it's half assed solutions that barely help anyone. There is enough to go around when you consider that 2% own more than 50% of the wealth in this nation and that we waste billions upon billions on a regular basis.

Have you ever considered that you are being played, like the coal barrens would play the Irish union against the black unions.? That a people divided cannot stand? We have to have a little trust that an organization designed to protect poor black people isn't out to get us.

My post wasn't in response to you, it was in response to amyb. Also, I never even mentioned the NAACP. BUUUT, since you did...I think the NAACP does more harm than good. Sometimes it helps people, but it always increases racial tension.

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