Poll: Is it racist to NOT hire someone specifically because of their race and to only hire people of the same race?
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Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
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31-07-2013, 11:35 AM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2013 11:49 AM by TrulyX.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 10:31 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  If by racial inequality you mean poor "blacks" and prosperous "whites", that's just, simply inequality, and that is social and economic.

If you mean bias, discrimination and prejudice in society, then that is that.

If calling it racism is a win for you, go ahead.

There is no denying it. If you want to abandon the facts in favor of a more comfortable perception, that is your own prerogative.

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Why would you respond as if I were denying inequality?

If clowns were poor, that wouldn't effect the economic and social realities and inequality and wouldn't give you a solution to solving it.

But go ahead. Go to congress and change, "helping the underprivileged suffering economic inequality" to "helping the blacks suffering racism". You are not going to have success either way, but the latter is likely to end the conversation a lot quicker, change it into something completely different and help aid you in losing whatever political support you thought you had.

Obama doesn't even use the word poor often, and he likewise does whatever he can to stay away from black. That must be because he doesn't care about poor, black people.

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31-07-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:33 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 10:34 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The poll question is as good of an example as any. The action is based upon race, and is done in such a way as to giver preferential treatment of one race at the exclusion of another. It doesn't matter what the justification is behind it.

My problem with the poll question would be that the label of race is placed without regard to the involved actors considerations, or even concepts, of race or racism.

Without even having an idea of the concept of race, people could make decisions that treat others, who look different, differently, even without a conscious justification.

You are labeling the actions as racist, but the actions are not happening void of context. If the results were just because of happenstance, labeling it as racist, to me, would seem sort of nonsensical, but it's obviously related to a person's thoughts and considerations.

I view racism as an ideology and an ideological justification though, which is likely different from how you see it. People would enslave/use any group in order to feel superior socially or on a hierarchical scale or to have a scapegoat. If people were forced to wear different color shirts, I wouldn't be surprised in seeing different results in how the people with different shirts were treated. They are a different subset of human beings just happens to be a better excuse for atrocities than because we felt/feel like it, or it is a better justification in explanation of perceived differences that are not completely understood.

And I've already said that not only do I not view racism as a strictly ideological, I submit that any given definition of racist or racism or racial discrimination, does either.

It can be called a belief, but that no more makes it necessarily ideological position than the belief that pepperoni pizza is the best pizza ever.

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31-07-2013, 11:42 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And I've already said that not only do I not view racism as a strictly ideological, I submit that any given definition of racist or racism or racial discrimination, does either.

It can be called a belief, but that no more makes it necessarily ideological position than the belief that pepperoni pizza is the best pizza ever.

Well, any source giving definition is obviously going to include a wide range of usage, in order to give you an idea of how the term is used, as that is what those types of sources are meant to do.

Within the definitions (I can give you one if you need it), it implies that it is an ideological position, regardless of if you want to expand upon the definition to use it in a way that isn't consistent with a viewpoint or ideology.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-07-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:42 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 11:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And I've already said that not only do I not view racism as a strictly ideological, I submit that any given definition of racist or racism or racial discrimination, does either.

It can be called a belief, but that no more makes it necessarily ideological position than the belief that pepperoni pizza is the best pizza ever.

Well, any source giving definition is obviously going to include a wide range of usage, in order to give you an idea of how the term is used, as that is what those types of sources are meant to do.

Within the definitions (I can give you one if you need it), it implies that it is an ideological position, regardless if you want to expand upon the definition to use it in a way that isn't consistent with a viewpoint or ideology.

Is the term "nigger" racist?

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31-07-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:43 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is the term "nigger" racist?

No.

But, it's a word. You could define it to imply racism, in the same way you could expand the definition of any word.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-07-2013, 11:49 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:46 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 11:43 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is the term "nigger" racist?

No.

But, it's a word. You could define it to imply racism, in the same way you could expand the definition of any word.

I'm not sure where else the conversation can go from here. If you feel that racism implies only to the ideological position of those who employ it, we don't really have much else to discuss.

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31-07-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:08 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 10:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The point is that the social inequality exists because of racism. And the furthering of it in the US today, is a continuation of that racism.

Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner

The gears where set in motion during arguably 'more racist' times...But refusing to stop the machine and fix it is racism by inaction.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt. The judges have over-ruled that answer.

Are you saying where there is no racism, there is no social inequality?

Racism may cause some social inequality, but certainly not all, probably not the majority.

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31-07-2013, 12:19 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2013 12:23 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:49 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm not sure where else the conversation can go from here. If you feel that racism implies only to the ideological position of those who employ it, we don't really have much else to discuss.

Actions, comments, etc., can be of or related to the ideological position that is racism.

But yeah, it's not happening in empty space. There has to be a human with some sort of thoughts or sentiments, explicitly expressed and accepted or not, consistent with the ideology, for something to be considered racism/racist.

I'm not saying that it has to be planned out, intentional or explicit, just to make that clear, but it has to be related to the viewpoint/ideology. As would a countries polices to consider that country communist or the system communism.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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31-07-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:35 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 11:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  There is no denying it. If you want to abandon the facts in favor of a more comfortable perception, that is your own prerogative.

Wages
[Image: 350px-US_gender_pay_gap,_by_sex,_race-ethnicity.001.png]
[Image: income-ratio-race.jpg]

Why would you respond as if I were denying inequality?

If clowns were poor, that wouldn't effect the economic and social realities and inequality and wouldn't give you a solution to solving it.

But go ahead. Go to congress and change, "helping the underprivileged suffering economic inequality" to "helping the blacks suffering racism". You are not going to have success either way, but the latter is likely to end the conversation a lot quicker, change it into something completely different and help aid you in losing whatever political support you thought you had.

Obama doesn't even use the word poor often, and he likewise does whatever he can to stay away from black. That must be because he doesn't care about poor, black people.

Both a strawman and non-sequitur.

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31-07-2013, 12:47 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
(31-07-2013 11:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-07-2013 11:08 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Ding. Ding. Ding. Winner

The gears where set in motion during arguably 'more racist' times...But refusing to stop the machine and fix it is racism by inaction.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt. The judges have over-ruled that answer.

Are you saying where there is no racism, there is no social inequality?

Racism may cause some social inequality, but certainly not all, probably not the majority.

Nah Chas that would be a dumb argument to make on my part. I'm simply saying a disproportionate number of black folks are economically disadvantaged as a result of crime, gentrification, poor educational opportunities, non-ownership...I know you think I'm a far left socialist but I do think that America needs some inequality to motivate production and education.... I just think everyone deserves a fair start in life...and you can't look at logica's charts and not see that clearly the black populace starts the race 300 yards back.

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