Poll: Is it racist to NOT hire someone specifically because of their race and to only hire people of the same race?
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Pulling the "race card" card (now with a poll)
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23-07-2013, 02:02 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
Same about the Indian restaurant by the way. Why the fuck should anyone care?

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23-07-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
Quote:You kept tabs on every minority that was interviewed? None of them spoke any good English?

Indian's speak very good english. It's the accent that makes it near impossible to understand...

Quote:So you are telling me that the majority of New Zealanders are racist?

No.
I'm telling you that the majority of my home town favor white people to Indian people.
Doesn't mean they are racist towards Indians.

Quote:They'd be supporting local business regardless.

Local as in town local, not country local.

Quote:Why not? Curry is delicious. Coffeedrinker

Sure, I love curry.
But not everyone wants the runs right before work...

Quote:Same about the Indian restaurant by the way. Why the fuck should anyone care?

You're missing the point entirely.
It's got nothing to do with what people should and shouldn't think, it's entire about what people DO think.

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23-07-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(23-07-2013 06:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Indian's speak very good english. It's the accent that makes it near impossible to understand...

Perhaps it is because I have been all over the world, but I have no problem listening and understanding accents. But you said it yourself, they are just pumping gas. Why the fuck would they be carrying a conversation?

(23-07-2013 06:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  No.
I'm telling you that the majority of my home town favor white people to Indian people.
Doesn't mean they are racist towards Indians.

I am pretty sure that if you favor one person over another because of their ethnicity, it is racism.

(23-07-2013 06:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Local as in town local, not country local.

Either way.

(23-07-2013 06:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Sure, I love curry.
But not everyone wants the runs right before work...

You must have a weak constitution. Drinking Beverage

(23-07-2013 06:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're missing the point entirely.
It's got nothing to do with what people should and shouldn't think, it's entire about what people DO think.

I am not missing the point at all. I get what you are saying, I am telling you that it is wrong and unfounded because it is racist.

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23-07-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(22-07-2013 07:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 05:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Sounds racist to me. Now, it may be in part what you say as far as clientele choosing places to go because of ethnicity. So maybe it's better to say it enabled racism as opposed to saying was actively racist.

No you're not seeing the facts.
I don't think people have/had anything against Indian people...
It's just that they are hard to understand. That is a fact.
They also lacked manners which I think is probably a cultural thing.

That isn't to say people hated Indians or had anything against Indians, it's just a simple matter of pleasant-er shopping experience.

It's like if you get a massage. Some people prefer a man to do it or some people prefer a women to do it. It doesn't mean you have ill feelings towards the other sex, it's just a matter of personal preference.

Quote:That practice is pushing it. Were the Indian employees unqualified for the position?

It's pumping gas...
And why is it pushing it? It was my bosses business, why should his business suffer by hiring Indians when he could prevent that by hiring white people.

I can understand having standards about being able to communicate and be polite. But not hiring them because it is assumed they lack the ability to communicate effectvely (if their english is rubbish then so be it, they will have a hard time getting employment in a country of english speakers) or be respectful because of their race, is racist.

The massage example is a bit hokey, I can kind of get what you are saying but being embarrassed in front of someone of another gender because you are nude, is not the same as being uncomfortable around someone else of a different ethnicity.

And if I go to a store that only has white employees, I don't think it is because the person doing the hiring is racist. Nor do I think that when I go to a store run exclusively by Indians.

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23-07-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(22-07-2013 08:40 PM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  
(22-07-2013 06:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I had no intentions of trying to not answer straightforwardly. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I'm not saying someone should be kept in college or university if not capable, but to assert that test scores and gpa are the defining characteristics that dictate who will and will not be capable at that level is preposterous.

There were 4 people who I graduated with in geology at university. The person at the top did have the best gpa and was easily the smartest among us, but her gpa didn't do her justice. Number 2 had a better gpa than I, but she was not as intelligent (I'm not trying be arrogant). She certainly worked harder. And the person who was in last had left the business he started to go back to school. He may have been number 4, but his relative position in the graduating class gave no indication of his interact either.

I do appreciate your answer. I'm sure the nuances are greater than I know being that I'm a high-school drop out who never went to college. Forgive me if I seemed snarky with you. I was curious of your perspective as a teacher as my wife will be one soon. Thanks

I'm not sure I'd say I am a teacher. I am a lab instructor. It seems a bit of a stretch for me to try and qualify myself as a teacher.

I look at my high school experience with very few minorities in it (it was middle TN after all). What I saw was not a separation of students based on race, but class and income level. The difference is quite astounding, even at a small school. The self-pro-claimed "rednecks" who's culture revolved around things other than school (for most of them it is because the family business required it), did not do well in their studies. It isn't race, it's social standing. And most of the minorities at my school, grew up in households that were quite poor. Their parents a product of even worse education standards and segregation. I'd like nothing more than to say that the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's is completely in our rear-view mirror, but...it isn't. We still see those effects. My parents were born in that era. They grew up in its aftermath. And I've heard them say some plainly racist things, without even realizing it.



I heard a story on NPR this morning about upward mobility. It kind of ties into this subject but is a bit more broad than that too. I'll make a new topic.

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23-07-2013, 05:32 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
Quote:Perhaps it is because I have been all over the world, but I have no problem listening and understanding accents. But you said it yourself, they are just pumping gas. Why the fuck would they be carrying a conversation?

"Good morning Mam', can I pump your gas today?
$20 premium, certainly. How is your day going so far today?
Oh that's good. It's nice that we have such a fine day today after all that rain huh?
Yes I did catch that game of that certain sports, that certain team played very well.
There you are mam all done. Just head on inside, *name* will sort you out just let her know you're on pump 6."
*move on to next person*

Quote:I am pretty sure that if you favor one person over another because of their ethnicity, it is racism.

No, if you hate someone because of their ethnicity it's racism.
People can preferences. I like green apples more then I like oranges, doesn't mean I hate oranges.

Quote:You must have a weak constitution. Coffeedrinker

I could eat curry all day, not everyone is so blessed.

Quote:I am not missing the point at all. I get what you are saying, I am telling you that it is wrong and unfounded because it is racist.

Which part?
The customers are perhaps racist, but that doesn't make my boss a racist because he knows his customers.

Quote:I can understand having standards about being able to communicate and be polite. But not hiring them because it is assumed they lack the ability to communicate effectvely (if their english is rubbish then so be it, they will have a hard time getting employment in a country of english speakers) or be respectful because of their race, is racist.

No it's not.
Racism is a belief system. If he hires because he hates Indians because Indians are Indians then yes it is racist. BUT if he hires because he knows his customers, that doesn't make him a racist.
What I'm saying is, it's not about the actions it's about the reason behind the actions that make the actions racist or not.

ie: If a white cop pulls over a black guy driving a expensive car.
It's racist if that cop pulled over that guy only because he's a black guy in an expensive car.
It's not racist if he was randomly pulling over every 20th car and this guy happened to be number 20.

Both are the exact same action, but only the first is a racist action.

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23-07-2013, 07:09 PM
Re: Pulling the "race card" card
A racist will never admit they are a racist. Racism isn't a belief system. That's foolish.

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23-07-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No it's not.
Racism is a belief system. If he hires because he hates Indians because Indians are Indians then yes it is racist. BUT if he hires because he knows his customers, that doesn't make him a racist.
What I'm saying is, it's not about the actions it's about the reason behind the actions that make the actions racist or not.

ie: If a white cop pulls over a black guy driving a expensive car.
It's racist if that cop pulled over that guy only because he's a black guy in an expensive car.
It's not racist if he was randomly pulling over every 20th car and this guy happened to be number 20.

Both are the exact same action, but only the first is a racist action.

(23-07-2013 07:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A racist will never admit they are a racist. Racism isn't a belief system. That's foolish.

So he does bring up a good point. I had a conversation once in a class about profiling and this black girl is telling us a story about how her cousin, or brother or someone she knew, had a flat and the cop pulled over to check on him but also wrote him up for an expired reg and forced him to get a tow. She cited this as an example of profiling but I know that it is standard policy to run a plate and call in location before leaving your vehicle, so if you get nailed by a psycho with a tire iron or clipped by traffic the station knows who was involved and where you are, etc, etc. I was tailed by a cop for 7 miles doing the limit and pulled over after making a legal turn around a circle(roundabout) then searched for "stabbin' weapons" because I was 17 had bumper stickers and my cousin had long hair. Is that not profiling? ... I've also been let go (written a summons but allowed to drive home) on an expired reg, is that not profiling by exception?

My point being that these situations are dynamic, are largely between the two parties involved and are open to interpretation much like Muffs is saying.

The lines when it comes to job applications, police profiling, hate crimes, college admissions are so beyond legislation in their subjectiveness that we should be largely ignoring them and instead be focused on the fact that this poor guy was driving a beat up car with old tires and no registration, probably because he couldn't afford to get the thing maintained or get it to pass inspection/pay reg fees. That's the crime. The crime is that black people aren't on the admissions boards and aren't in management and they don't own gas stations because they don't have the opportunity. But again anti-racism laws are cheap to implement and make great bullet points, educating the ghetto is expensive and takes longer than 6 years.

The problem is not with the people it's with the legislators. We can't dictate these subjective situations with anti-racism legislation, but we can help fix the inner city and we can bring back the living wage and the public school.

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23-07-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(23-07-2013 07:09 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  A racist will never admit they are a racist. Racism isn't a belief system. That's foolish.

See, now you're just using the same tactics any theist would use by avoiding the topic at hand.

And yes it is. Someone can 'believe' a particular race is superior to another.
I can believe apples taste better then oranges. That is my opinion and it doesn't mean that apples ARE better then oranges (even though they are, and no this is not a metaphor... Dodgy ).
Perhaps a better word would be 'think'. It's a 'think' system.

I stand by my racist action v non-racist action point.

Quote:So he does bring up a good point. I had a conversation once in a class about profiling and this black girl is telling us a story about how her cousin, or brother or someone she knew, had a flat and the cop pulled over to check on him but also wrote him up for an expired reg and forced him to get a tow. She cited this as an example of profiling but I know that it is standard policy to run a plate and call in location before leaving your vehicle, so if you get nailed by a psycho with a tire iron or clipped by traffic the station knows who was involved and where you are, etc, etc. I was tailed by a cop for 7 miles doing the limit and pulled over after making a legal turn around a circle(roundabout) then searched for "stabbin' weapons" because I was 17 had bumper stickers and my cousin had long hair. Is that not profiling? ... I've also been let go (written a summons but allowed to drive home) on an expired reg, is that not profiling by exception?

My point being that these situations are dynamic, are largely between the two parties involved and are open to interpretation much like Muffs is saying.

The lines when it comes to job applications, police profiling, hate crimes, college admissions are so beyond legislation in their subjectiveness that we should be largely ignoring them and instead be focused on the fact that this poor guy was driving a beat up car with old tires and no registration, probably because he couldn't afford to get the thing maintained or get it to pass inspection/pay reg fees. That's the crime. The crime is that black people aren't on the admissions boards and aren't in management and they don't own gas stations because they don't have the opportunity. But again anti-racism laws are cheap to implement and make great bullet points, educating the ghetto is expensive and takes longer than 6 years.

The problem is not with the people it's with the legislators. We can't dictate these subjective situations with anti-racism legislation, but we can help fix the inner city and we can bring back the living wage and the public school.

This.
Though spending time solving problems before they become problems would make too much sense and heaven forbid the politicians did something because it made common sense...

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24-07-2013, 03:29 AM
RE: Pulling the "race card" card
(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "Good morning Mam', can I pump your gas today?
$20 premium, certainly. How is your day going so far today?
Oh that's good. It's nice that we have such a fine day today after all that rain huh?
Yes I did catch that game of that certain sports, that certain team played very well.
There you are mam all done. Just head on inside, *name* will sort you out just let her know you're on pump 6."
*move on to next person*

And if a person cannot understand that in an Indian accent, I suggest they pull their head out of their ass so they can hear it without it being muffled.

(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No, if you hate someone because of their ethnicity it's racism.
People can preferences. I like green apples more then I like oranges, doesn't mean I hate oranges.

Actually, no. Favoring one "race" over another because of specific characteristics within society is racism.

Keep in mind I don't like the word "race" because I don't actually believe we are separate races.

(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I could eat curry all day, not everyone is so blessed.

I never said they should eat curry everyday. Who the hell fills their car up everyday? Drinking Beverage

(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Which part?
The customers are perhaps racist, but that doesn't make my boss a racist because he knows his customers.

No, he just hires white people because those brown people are ignorant and hard to understand. It is definitely not racism.

(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  No it's not.
Racism is a belief system. If he hires because he hates Indians because Indians are Indians then yes it is racist. BUT if he hires because he knows his customers, that doesn't make him a racist.
What I'm saying is, it's not about the actions it's about the reason behind the actions that make the actions racist or not.

Racism is not a belief system.

(23-07-2013 05:32 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  ie: If a white cop pulls over a black guy driving a expensive car.
It's racist if that cop pulled over that guy only because he's a black guy in an expensive car.
It's not racist if he was randomly pulling over every 20th car and this guy happened to be number 20.

That's because the cop's intent was not to pull over the car specifically because he is black. Your boss is hiring with the intent to exclude Indians. That is racial discrimination. It is racism.

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