Poll: What would you have done with the "gay-books"
Pulp them!
Move them to the adult's section
Leave them in the children's section
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Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.
Pulp The Gay Penguins!
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02-09-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
Anything that alters the target's personal life in a harmful way is harm.

The law draws intent into consideration. If, for instance, someone were to conduct research and find out that I had PTSD regarding something, and then send me that something in the mail, that would be inflicting intentional harm, even though the same material in the mail would make you laugh.

So you are not evaluating the actual material as to whether it is or isn't harmful, it is whether the person in question meant for it to be harmful based on the situation.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-09-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
(02-09-2014 05:19 PM)Dom Wrote:  Anything that alters the target's personal life in a harmful way is harm.

The law draws intent into consideration. If, for instance, someone were to conduct research and find out that I had PTSD regarding something, and then send me that something in the mail, that would be inflicting intentional harm, even though the same material in the mail would make you laugh.

So you are not evaluating the actual material as to whether it is or isn't harmful, it is whether the person in question meant for it to be harmful based on the situation.

Which is an excellent illustration of the concept that the law cannot be black and white, and by extension nor can governance.

There is nuance, there are circumstances, there is need for discernment and judgement.

There is need of wisdom.

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02-09-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
(02-09-2014 06:06 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Yeah, well Dodgy

It's not just the christian and muslim die-hards that are cause of the Singaporean progressives' face-palm injuries... we have a huge and very conservative Chinese population.

Weeping

Traditional Chinese culture is well preserved in Singapore, not subjected to the Cultural Revolution and stuff, you know. That's a nice thing. Yet, as you also know, being well preserved, sigh, sometimes also means being very conservative ... Facepalm

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02-09-2014, 08:12 PM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
Sometimes, I wish I didn't need to sleep while you guys are awake.

Good points raised by all.

Yup, the definition of 'harm' is key and without one, 'wisdom' must prevail.

In IT Governance, which is more applicable to an on-line community than a geographic community (like Singapore), the decision making (wisdom) bit is described as balancing three 'value objectives':
Benefits Realisation
Risk Optimisation
Resource Optimisation

Black and white, it certainly is not.

It seems though. that there is general agreement that the Singapore authority's decision to quarantine the books (rather than pulp them) was a wise decision.

Similarly, TTA already has an opt-in precedence, namely, the Over 18 section.

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12-09-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
I myself am part of the LGBT community, and in my opinion I feel they should be moved to the adult section of the library (adult meaning grown-ups, not porn). While I don't specifically have objections to them being in the children's section, I can see how some people who object to these books could be upset that they're there instead of another section. I am in favor of reasonable compromises, even if I'm compromising with total bigots. Most of their demands are outlandish and not worth compromising on, but moving the books from the children's section to the adults section I can agree with.

Removing them entirely I cannot agree with.
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14-09-2014, 01:51 AM
RE: Pulp The Gay Penguins!
(12-09-2014 08:54 PM)jojorumbles Wrote:  I myself am part of the LGBT community, and in my opinion I feel they should be moved to the adult section of the library (adult meaning grown-ups, not porn). While I don't specifically have objections to them being in the children's section, I can see how some people who object to these books could be upset that they're there instead of another section. I am in favor of reasonable compromises, even if I'm compromising with total bigots. Most of their demands are outlandish and not worth compromising on, but moving the books from the children's section to the adults section I can agree with.

Removing them entirely I cannot agree with.

I'm gonna rep you for that. Smile

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