Punishment
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-06-2016, 11:22 PM
RE: Punishment
(08-06-2016 09:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 06:57 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think we need to define "punishment" for this thread, too. It's such a loaded word, I bet it means very different things to different people.

I think we can all agree that punishment is negative reinforcement applied after undesired behavior.

I agree.

I don't see any other way to define it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Momsurroundedbyboys's post
09-06-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: Punishment
(08-06-2016 11:22 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 09:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I think we can all agree that punishment is negative reinforcement applied after undesired behavior.

I agree.

I don't see any other way to define it.

I do.

We can define it as what happens to you before you say your safe-word.

Angel

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
09-06-2016, 12:35 AM
RE: Punishment
(09-06-2016 12:15 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-06-2016 11:22 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I agree.

I don't see any other way to define it.

I do.

We can define it as what happens to you before you say your safe-word.

Angel

Could you put this in the context of the OP?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2016, 01:52 AM
RE: Punishment
(09-06-2016 12:35 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 12:15 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I do.

We can define it as what happens to you before you say your safe-word.

Angel

Could you put this in the context of the OP?

OP is a very naughty girl Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
09-06-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: Punishment




I suppose it's open to interpretation, but perhaps these wolves are punishing the coyote for stealing their food.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: Punishment
I think that punishment is universal, and would exist in a void of religion.

Religion invented revenge.

They even wrote it in ---

"VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.

They should claim pedophilia, spousal abuse and genocide as well....

"Religion of peace" - my ass..................

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2016, 06:37 AM
RE: Punishment
When looking at animals we have to be very careful not to apply our own ideas to them - like justice and such.

We have to make a difference between these, and probably many more but these jump out at me:

Punishment versus saving your offspring from harm

Punishment versus establishing dominance

Punishment versus removal from the group

Punishment implies that the punisher is doing it so that the culprit suffers. Do you think the animal is actually thinking about the feelings of the culprit? Or is it merely acting to protect the group order, or food, or offspring, or dominance?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Punishment
(09-06-2016 05:39 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Religion invented revenge.

Humans invented religion. Humans are animals. Animals invented revenge.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-06-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: Punishment
(09-06-2016 06:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  When looking at animals we have to be very careful not to apply our own ideas to them - like justice and such.

We have to make a difference between these, and probably many more but these jump out at me:

Punishment versus saving your offspring from harm

Punishment versus establishing dominance

Punishment versus removal from the group

Punishment implies that the punisher is doing it so that the culprit suffers. Do you think the animal is actually thinking about the feelings of the culprit? Or is it merely acting to protect the group order, or food, or offspring, or dominance?

IMO our concept of punishment springs from these things. Animals and humans are on a continuum. Animal social structures are more primitive but have the same motivations as human ones I think.

Humans differ in having memory and verbal and other communication skills. We can say "you are being punished for this that you did ages ago". A dog, that wouldn't work on. The dog would associate the punishment with whatever behaviour it was doing right at the time you punished it. (Not that I think negative reinforcement is a good way to train a dog or human, but a human at least would understand for what (s)he was being punished.)

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
09-06-2016, 07:02 AM
RE: Punishment
(09-06-2016 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 06:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  When looking at animals we have to be very careful not to apply our own ideas to them - like justice and such.

We have to make a difference between these, and probably many more but these jump out at me:

Punishment versus saving your offspring from harm

Punishment versus establishing dominance

Punishment versus removal from the group

Punishment implies that the punisher is doing it so that the culprit suffers. Do you think the animal is actually thinking about the feelings of the culprit? Or is it merely acting to protect the group order, or food, or offspring, or dominance?

IMO our concept of punishment springs from these things. Animals and humans are on a continuum. Animal social structures are more primitive but have the same motivations as human ones I think.

Humans differ in having memory and verbal and other communication skills. We can say "you are being punished for this that you did ages ago". A dog, that wouldn't work on. The dog would associate the punishment with whatever behaviour it was doing right at the time you punished it. (Not that I think negative reinforcement is a good way to train a dog or human, but a human at least would understand for what (s)he was being punished.)

Yes. I also think that our ideas of punishment originally stem from the simple intent I outlined above.

I wonder how much of punishment comes from religion, and how much of religion comes from the idea of inflicting punishment.

Punishment is not a rational action to prevent further issues. It's a moral judgement, the culprit must repent, the focus has gotten away from solving the issue and moved on to a whole other realm - a realm that is generally occupied buy religion.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: