Putin's motives?
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29-07-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Putin's motives?
(29-07-2014 02:26 PM)Marozz Wrote:  It will be interesting to see if Putin switches off the gas supply to Europe to counter any sanctions imposed by the west. I suppose he may see that ignoring the Ukraine issue could see Russia ending up having NATO on their doorstep.
A NATO operation will be helluva unpopular with Europe and the US. War with Russia will be expensive both in lives and money. Pretty sure no one's gonna go for it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-07-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Putin's motives?
(29-07-2014 02:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(29-07-2014 02:14 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  *Pure Speculation* I think he may be testing the resolve of the west. He knows that any sanctions would hurt Europe as bad as they hurt him, thus why the EU has just now gone ahead with them. The Malaysian flight was probably a case of mistaken identity by untrained rebels not acting under any supervision from moscow. That is a problem when you are extremists to fight your proxy war.

Further sanctions would do far more harm to Russia (a huge portion of government revenue derives from energy exports to Europe), but the danger of them is that if they're put in place pre-emptively or aggressively then the Russians could very well be looking at a situation where they (think) they have nothing to lose by corresponding escalation...

This goes back to your Autocratic Bubble point. He was used to getting his own way and not having anyone else do more than grumble. Ultimately no one is going to go to war over the Ukraine. It is hard to see what the possible end game is going to be as the situation is incredibly fluid.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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29-07-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Putin's motives?
(29-07-2014 01:24 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  You should try looking at the situation from Putin's point of view. He had a nice little puppet state on his border with his own hand-picked president. Then, correctly deciding that the EU was a somewhat better choice than Moscow economically, Ukraine broke with Moscow, in effect inviting Putin and Russia to go fuck themselves and threw out his puppet president. Having previously watch Eastern Europe side with the EU Putin now has the the EU border moved 1,000 miles closer to Moscow and a state which is potentially hostile.

What would we do in such an instance?

Invade them for their oil of course!
Murica' fuck yeah!

Regarding Ukraine, I believe that the original protests that caused shit to hit the fan were not planned. People got pissy and tables were flipped. As a response Russia went full potato and seized the opportunity to grab some land (Crimea and its navy bases) and is now supporting the eastern rebels because they want to restore a pro-Russian government. So basically what America does when it supports pro-American "rebels".
I extremely doubt Putin has plans of world domination or restoring the USSR or some such bs. Dreams maybe, but not plans. And I certainly don't think this is all some conspiracy for preemptive attack or some shit. Just a seized opportunity to an unforeseeable event.

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29-07-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Putin's motives?
On one side you have Europe trying to force Ukraine into it's anti-national union, and on the other side you have Russia trying to tear the country apart so that they can annex the Eastern part. Neither side has any respect for Ukraine's national sovereignty.
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31-07-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: Putin's motives?
I think its really pretty simple. Putin sees the Russian speaking peoples of eastern Ukraine as ethnic Russians (and they are), in need of defense from Western economic and political influences (and thats not entirely unfair). He also very probably considers Ukraine to be "in his own back yard", so to speak. A powerful nation like Russia probably believes they have a right to maintain influence in their region. It sounds awfully empirical, and it is, but the United States would behave the exact same way if Russia were meddling in Puerto Rico or any of the other latino nations. I sympathize with Putin's position, even if I don't agree with it. The only reason is motives seem so hard to contemplate is because we here in the west seemed determined to paint him in black and white terms.
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