Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
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29-12-2015, 12:35 PM
Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
Cranky because of a fever, I spent some time yesterday getting irritated with the "fat acceptance" movement. As with a recent post about trans issues and skepticism, I'm probably putting my foot in it, but.....

First, only dicks mock or mistreat in any way individual humans because of some physical trait, whether it's skin color, physical condition, or whatever.

But I find that when "fat acceptance" types get rolling, they often descend into pseudo-science and nonsense.

While all cases are individual, it isn't really true that one can be "healthy at any weight," at least according to the overwhelming consensus of science.

But my favorite is when people insist that they carefully watch calories and exercise, but dadgummit, they still can't lose weight, then offer various reasons, ranging from genetic "set points" (no validity in the science) to hormonal imbalances and so on.

If their excuses were valid, they would violate basic physics. Let X = a person's weight; a = calorie intake in some defined period of time; b = calories burned in the same period of time (or, to put it simply, energy in and energy out). If a/b > 1, X will, over time, increase; if a/b < 1, X will decrease.

I have experienced shifting metabolism during a 500-mile hike and running long races. But in the end, it's governed by the above, and bullshit about personal metabolism rates isn't valid.

Losing weight and keeping it off is hard. Here's another equation: a = desire to lose weight; b = ability to withstand discomforts and effort of losing weight. If a/b > 1, the person will lose weight; if a/b < 1 he or she won't.

Or am I just a big ol' goddamn meanie?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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29-12-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
There are so many important things to be outraged over. This isn't one of them.Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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29-12-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
Har har.

I have a lot to say about this, but I won't go into it too much. But yes.
For the most part being fat isn't healthy (and causes health problems).
Yes, creating a calorie deficit will cause weight loss (although how you do it can be done in healthy and unhealthy ways).
Yes, losing weight and maintaining often takes determination that most people seem to just not have.
Yes, most people's excuses for not being able to lose weight are BS, and it usually comes down to choices and will power.
Yes, there are some people (a very small minority) who have body/genetic issues that prevent them from maintaining a healthy weight.


Losing weight isn't that hard, but it requires planning and usually home cooking. The sucky thing is in America (and probably other places) the common lifestyle is extremely unhealthy. Unhealthy snacks, oversized portions, carbs are super cheap and addictive, tons of sugar in everything, not much exercise. This country (and probably others) needs a change, but I don't see it happening.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-12-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
(29-12-2015 12:43 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  There are so many important things to be outraged over. This isn't one of them.Drinking Beverage

Like I say, I was feeling cranky.

But I've been thinking about "progressive" politics and culture recently and asking myself how aspects comport with what I consider to be good, skeptical thinking. I think of myself as progressive, but as I get older find myself less tolerant of some things I once would have blithely accepted, like "safe spaces."

I wouldn't say I'm outraged, but I am curious if anyone thinks my (very) basic equations are, in essence, correct.

Grumpily yours.....

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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29-12-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
I have to admit i know very little about it, but according to my sister-in-law the state of Tennessee accepts the obesity is not my fault and gives 100 per cent service to people who make the above claims. I have met Fred. He weighs in at a bit over 490, and has not fully stood up for a couple of years. She, sister-in-law, claims that he has not eaten more than 1000 calories in any day since she started being his home health care nurse 3 years ago, and he doesn't lose weight on that diet. I don't fully believe it myself, but apparently those who pay out the money trusted to their care do. Who brings him chocolate bars? I ask her.
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29-12-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
(29-12-2015 12:48 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Unhealthy snacks, oversized portions, carbs are super cheap and addictive, tons of sugar in everything, not much exercise. This country (and probably others) needs a change, but I don't see it happening.

American food policy and culture is unbelievable. It always floors me to realize that, quite literally, I can buy a cheeseburger and some fries at BK or McDonald's for less than a good-sized Honeycrisp apple.

I'm not an anti-government goon, by any means, but a lot of this truly is due to bad policy decisions and allocations of public money (i.e. subsidies).

Eating out is terrible for you, even if you aren't eating at the fast-food places.

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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29-12-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
(29-12-2015 12:51 PM)DerFish Wrote:  She, sister-in-law, claims that he has not eaten more than 1000 calories in any day since she started being his home health care nurse 3 years ago, and he doesn't lose weight on that diet.

He's compensating for lower calories with lower energy burned, otherwise, he would have to be losing weight.

I suspect that's what happens to a lot of people who claim they are eating fewer calories but not losing weight: They are simply burning fewer calories by doing less "work" (i.e. exercise and so on).

But I submit that there is no way to violate the ruthless energy-in/energy-out equations.

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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29-12-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
(29-12-2015 12:51 PM)DerFish Wrote:  I have to admit i know very little about it, but according to my sister-in-law the state of Tennessee accepts the obesity is not my fault and gives 100 per cent service to people who make the above claims. I have met Fred. He weighs in at a bit over 490, and has not fully stood up for a couple of years. She, sister-in-law, claims that he has not eaten more than 1000 calories in any day since she started being his home health care nurse 3 years ago, and he doesn't lose weight on that diet. I don't fully believe it myself, but apparently those who pay out the money trusted to their care do. Who brings him chocolate bars? I ask her.
Sounds like a pile of bull. Maybe he eats 1000 calories and then drinks an extra 4000 worth? It takes a lot of calories to maintain 490. Unless he has some sort of condition that stops his fat from being consumed as energy.

Also, 1000 calories a day is EXTREMELY unlhealthy. Somebody at that weight couldn't do it. I couldn't do it, and it would be sooo much harder for somebody with the appetite you would have at 490 pounds.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-12-2015, 01:11 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
I am skeptical that this rant doesn't have a mocking agenda, a justifiable mocking agenda, at that... but then I'm skeptical like that. Yes

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29-12-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: Putting my foot in it again - fat acceptance
To me fat acceptance means to love yourself at any size or weight. Society wants perfection and it is crammed down people's throats and some develop eating disorders because of it. Food is an addiction for some people, so it may not be as simple for them to "just lose weight." I am not saying being overweight is healthy, but I do think people should love themselves at any size and work on exercising and developing healthy eating habits. But hating yourself because of your weight and having society shame you is not going to help people feel good about themselves and make them want to develop positive lifestyle changes. You need to love yourself at any size and then the desire to make changes will come.
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