Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
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02-11-2012, 01:06 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
(01-11-2012 11:51 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 11:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  The problem is the further back in history you go the more minor events *then* influence major events *now*.

That actually turns out not to be the case. The "butterfly-induced hurricane" is a myth caused by a misunderstanding of chaos theory. In actuality, the vast majority of minor actions have an extremely short range effect and tend to average out very quickly. There are actions that can have effects far beyond their anticipated scope, but they are the statistically rare exception, the 'rogue wave', not the norm. And even then, a big change or big action will usually (not always, but usually) have a bigger effect.

... Not so sure. Back when Rome was a minor city state, could have been annihilated many times. Now that's a minor event. Random pipsqueak city disappears from history. But it didn't happen and the whole face of the world is changed as a result.

Or go further back to... I don't know... any of the major battles which could have gone either way. We got stuck with whatever outcome was decided on the day, but overall, those are minor events. Some of them have shaped history though. Humans are chaos agents - they blow up minor things to major...

Admittedly most of that is me waffling 'cos I don't wanna be wrong Tongue But I still see old history as being more significant than newer... if you see what I mean? There were fewer humans in those days. Therefore de facto, any action by one of those humans would have a greater effect on history. Nowadays there's inertia to contend with. To swing the course of history you have to push against billions of other people...
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02-11-2012, 04:58 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2012 05:07 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
Giving women in the US the right to vote. It passed by 1 vote, who was a guy who got yelled at by his grandma, who was going to vote the other way.

Minor events DO have profound affects on the future.

Flemming accidentally dropping the fungus into the Petri dish .... which resulted in the first antibiotic...Penicillin. Before that anyone who had an infection, such as a abscessed tooth, or a mosquito bite, (the discoverer of Tut-ankh-amun's tomb) DIED of sepsis. An accident that forever changed the landscape.

The cotton gin.
Automation of looms.

invention of steel, which allowed highrises to be bulit...forever changed the landscape
first automobile, forever changed the landscape
Highway systems, road paving
open heart surgery, kidney transplantation

Watson and Crick's discovery of DNA
discovery and use of genetically modified food ... if had not happened the planet could not sustain the population we have
motion picture industry, forever changed human culture
telephone
light bulb

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-11-2012, 08:48 PM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
Muffs, you got 24 hours to accept a challenger.

Guys, stop discussing shit here! It's all going to be deleted as soon as the debate starts. And if the debate doesn't happen, the whole thread is getting deleted.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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02-11-2012, 09:50 PM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
Perhaps this should be moved to political or world events?

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03-11-2012, 03:28 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
(02-11-2012 04:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Giving women in the US the right to vote. It passed by 1 vote, who was a guy who got yelled at by his grandma, who was going to vote the other way.

Minor events DO have profound affects on the future.

Flemming accidentally dropping the fungus into the Petri dish .... which resulted in the first antibiotic...Penicillin. Before that anyone who had an infection, such as a abscessed tooth, or a mosquito bite, (the discoverer of Tut-ankh-amun's tomb) DIED of sepsis. An accident that forever changed the landscape.

The cotton gin.
Automation of looms.

invention of steel, which allowed highrises to be bulit...forever changed the landscape
first automobile, forever changed the landscape
Highway systems, road paving
open heart surgery, kidney transplantation

Watson and Crick's discovery of DNA
discovery and use of genetically modified food ... if had not happened the planet could not sustain the population we have
motion picture industry, forever changed human culture
telephone
light bulb
oh bucks.. you took mine ... and for once I read through the thread to see.. I thought antibiotics too.. for exactly the same reasons.. how many times have you been ill in your insignificant life with something that just would not go away.. we could have all died several times over now.. the manufacturers of the stuff def has its flaws and fucking money making bs behind it.. but its damn important.. not sure about most significant in histiry .. but def a big one!

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03-11-2012, 03:31 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
(02-11-2012 08:48 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Muffs, you got 24 hours to accept a challenger.

Guys, stop discussing shit here! It's all going to be deleted as soon as the debate starts. And if the debate doesn't happen, the whole thread is getting deleted.
I'm sure I've missed the point of this thread but I enjoy the diff opinions of what people deem as important in history.. but don't say it cause yes I see the debate on the subject line.. however .. someone should start another thread.. about just significant things that stick out to individuals.. I would but I don't know how to do it and link this to it.. EEK..

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03-11-2012, 07:14 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
(02-11-2012 08:48 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Muffs, you got 24 hours to accept a challenger.

Guys, stop discussing shit here! It's all going to be deleted as soon as the debate starts. And if the debate doesn't happen, the whole thread is getting deleted.
You delete ah hunt you down. Ah smeck your ugly face. Then I walk away. I have the moral high ground. Fucker. Big Grin
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03-11-2012, 07:37 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
@Bucky,

Cotton Gin: The cotton gin made slavery in America unnecessary, but slavery was already becoming unpopular anyway.
Plus, America =/= whole word.
Cotton was not the only thing cloths were made out of.

Automation of Looms: Interesting but I don't think so. At this time women were still very much stay at home wives, if commercial clothing was not available women could still easily stitch some for the whole family.
Probably the biggest thing to happen to the fashion industry though.
Plus, steam power allowed for larger more important automation during the industrial period.

Invention of steal is very interesting. History (and extensive hours playing real time strategy games) tells us the advancements in crafting materials is often something that has massive massive impact on the entire population.
Bronze age for example.
Better material allow for better weapons etc.. and in the case of steal you can build better bridges which I would argue is a better reason then skyscrapers. Prior to steal and in particular stainless steal bridges were very short because they had to be an upside down 'U' shape. So to bigger meant that you had to also go taller.
Steal as opposed to cast iron is stronger and so allowed for different designs which in turned allowed for shorter but longer and stronger bridges. The golden gate bridge for example could never have been made out of pre-1800's materials.
And of course skyscrapers which has given us the cities we have today.
I think it is certainly the closets but I think my reasons for steam engine trump steal, but only slightly.

First automobile is a result of steam engines. Steam engines resulted in steam powered boats, steam trains etc.. which revolutionized how the world worked. It kicked off the industrial revolution, steam engine allowed it to happen.
The combustion engine is then just a steam engine 2.0 Without the principle first step of steam, you never would have arrived at combustion.

Roads/Rail/Pavement: All because of the steam engine. With the steam engine there is no need for rail.

Surgery: Certainly saved many many lives, as with all medical advancements really. However man was surviving just fine prior to open heart surgery.

Discovery of DNA: Nah, a big discovery yes but not much effect on our lives today in the sense of day-to-day.
Perhaps when DNA becomes bigger and we are able to change it and fiddle around and stuff much more then we can today. We may be able to cure every known disease for example. So perhaps in the future, but not in relation to today.

Genetically modified food. How do you mean, are you referring to genetically modified food in the sense that all that corn in that field over there are just clones of each other? Because I would disagree that without we couldn't sustain our population. Ever herd of a little thing called "organic" for example.

motion picture: Hmm. Nah. I could live just fine today with my computer, a radio and a newspaper.

telephone: nope. beep beeeep beep beep beeeeep...

light bulb: Not that the light bulb wasn't awesome, but I think I'd argue electricity > light bulb



Why has no one mentioned internet?

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03-11-2012, 07:40 AM
RE: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
(03-11-2012 07:37 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Genetically modified food. How do you mean, are you referring to genetically modified food in the sense that all that corn in that field over there are just clones of each other? Because I would disagree that without we couldn't sustain our population. Ever herd of a little thing called "organic" for example.

Why has no one mentioned internet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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03-11-2012, 08:08 AM
Re: Putting on my serious face. Open historical debate.
How about the old adage.... You don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Invention of the wheel!

let the dissection of this answer begin!

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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