Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
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29-10-2013, 11:59 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(29-10-2013 07:17 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  If I told you I was certain, would you believe me? If so, yes. The thing is that after my meditative experience, I carried the feeling of joy with me to this day. Of course, when I clear my mind again, it all becomes even better. But I consider it *valid* because I'm able to carry the feelings I procure with me.

I'm happy to believe you *that you are certain*. I'm not happy to believe without further evidence that *you are correct*.

What it boils down to is that you believe in God / Super being purely because it feels right to you... that's just... I don't *understand* how you can be so certain on that basis because I would never accept that as a sufficient test of reality if it was *me* getting all the happy feel-good feelings.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-10-2013, 03:06 AM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(28-10-2013 09:45 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Now you're gettin' it.
Yeah, but I don't think you are Tongue

Meant that life's too short to waste even a second's thought on the stupid and pathetic Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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30-10-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(29-10-2013 07:17 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 01:24 AM)morondog Wrote:  TTT: Meditating is waaaaaaaay too dodgy a procedure to have any confidence that the result of any meditation experiment is not just wishful thinking. Can you be sure of this in your own case ? Are you *certain* (well, reasonably confident) that your happy-meditatey feelings come from God and not just *you*.

If I told you I was certain, would you believe me? If so, yes. The thing is that after my meditative experience, I carried the feeling of joy with me to this day. Of course, when I clear my mind again, it all becomes even better. But I consider it *valid* because I'm able to carry the feelings I procure with me.

Precisely - feelings, not evidence.

Meditation is not a path to knowledge of anything but your feelings and thoughts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-10-2013, 12:08 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(29-10-2013 07:17 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(29-10-2013 01:24 AM)morondog Wrote:  TTT: Meditating is waaaaaaaay too dodgy a procedure to have any confidence that the result of any meditation experiment is not just wishful thinking. Can you be sure of this in your own case ? Are you *certain* (well, reasonably confident) that your happy-meditatey feelings come from God and not just *you*.

If I told you I was certain, would you believe me? If so, yes. The thing is that after my meditative experience, I carried the feeling of joy with me to this day. Of course, when I clear my mind again, it all becomes even better. But I consider it *valid* because I'm able to carry the feelings I procure with me.

You are certain only of the feeling you have that you procured while meditating.
Thinking about unicorns while you meditate doesn't mean that your source of joy comes from unicorns,
just as thinking about god while you meditate doesn't mean that your source of joy is coming from a god.

It means that YOU, your mind, felt joy from your own thoughts.

I get that same kind of high when I go hiking in the mountains or swimming or after a long mud & water filled journey of cave exploring.
I can create a feeling of joy all day long by thinking about the woman I love and how happy our lives are.

I've had grand naps during the day that are some of my most treasured memories.
The joy of a moment in time to myself without interruption was perfection for me.
It wasn't a god giving me a mental hand job.

Human beings have feelings and those feelings are all based in the brain.
Our feelings are reactions to stimuli, whether that stimuli be external or internal.

I've gone for months and written a novel in my mind that only I will ever know.
I personally love the story line and how it progress from low to high to a mix of melodies that I can't and won't put into words on paper or any other form.
It's purely something that I have created in my mind that is a personal pleasure for me. And it will remain there for all of my life.

The god you have in your mind is exactly the same. It's all self generated.
Look deeply enough into your own thoughts and you will realize this is true.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-10-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(30-10-2013 03:06 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 09:45 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Now you're gettin' it.
Yeah, but I don't think you are Tongue

Meant that life's too short to waste even a second's thought on the stupid and pathetic Drinking Beverage

Oh sure, go ahead and ruin a perfectly good joke with your "correct context"....

I'll just go play in the corner. [Image: deep-sigh-smiley-emoticon.gif]

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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30-10-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(30-10-2013 12:17 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I'll just go play in the corner.

[Image: smiley-laughing015.gif] With yourself?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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30-10-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
Yes, it was I who felt it. Interesting, morondog, to point our the difference between certainty and truth. What is the difference you speak of?
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30-10-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(30-10-2013 02:33 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Yes, it was I who felt it. Interesting, morondog, to point our the difference between certainty and truth. What is the difference you speak of?

I thought it was self evident that there was a difference, I didn't point one out.

I've had enough experiences in my life where I was dead certain of some fact only to be proven wrong later. So when you say *you* are certain it means literally 0 in the scale of whether or not something is actually *true* or not (to me anyway), unless you can *back up* that certainty with *reasons* for why you're so damn certain.

Also we're just a bunch of monkeys stuck on a ball of rock in the middle of nowhere banging keyboards, so let's agree that *absolute* certainty is probably going to elude us in our ever expanding quest for the Cosmic Banana. But we can make some probability judgments, and personally I like to use Occam's Razor, which is the point at which the stubble that is Deism gets shaved of the theoretical face of Knowledge, 'cos that states that adding extra stuff without just cause is plain silly...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-10-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
(30-10-2013 03:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-10-2013 02:33 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  Yes, it was I who felt it. Interesting, morondog, to point our the difference between certainty and truth. What is the difference you speak of?

I thought it was self evident that there was a difference, I didn't point one out.

I've had enough experiences in my life where I was dead certain of some fact only to be proven wrong later. So when you say *you* are certain it means literally 0 in the scale of whether or not something is actually *true* or not (to me anyway), unless you can *back up* that certainty with *reasons* for why you're so damn certain.

Also we're just a bunch of monkeys stuck on a ball of rock in the middle of nowhere banging keyboards, so let's agree that *absolute* certainty is probably going to elude us in our ever expanding quest for the Cosmic Banana. But we can make some probability judgments, and personally I like to use Occam's Razor, which is the point at which the stubble that is Deism gets shaved of the theoretical face of Knowledge, 'cos that states that adding extra stuff without just cause is plain silly...

Not monkeys, apes Thumbsup
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30-10-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: Q&A with The_Thinking_Theist
Rolleyes

Monkeys goddammit.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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