Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
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08-06-2015, 03:16 PM
Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
http://www.digitaljournal.com/science/ex...-the-past/

Seriously, WTF!!! How does this even work! Think about the implications of this regarding the theism debate- the experiment states that we have to be observing particles in the future for them to exist in the past and also for them to decide what state they're going to be in. This implies that if a sentient observer does not look at reality, reality ceases to exist.

Does this give a stronger case for theism? Does an outside sentient observer exist outside of reality in order to look at it so that it exists at all? Is that observer the basis for God?

Atheism could counter that with an even stranger argument- that the past exists because humans or other sentient beings exist now- this would mean that the Big Bang and all of reality exists in the past because we are observing the effects now in the future.

According to this, that means that all of reality is a giant causality loop.

So does that mean that if every sentient being in the Universe were all asleep at the same time, that reality would cease to exist because nothing's looking at it?

Seriously guys, WTF!!!!! This is awesome, but WTF!!!!
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08-06-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
Corrected link:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/science/ex...cle/434829

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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08-06-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
(08-06-2015 03:16 PM)Nagoda Wrote:  Does this give a stronger case for theism?

It would give them a flag of science to wave around, but...

Nagoda Wrote:Does an outside sentient observer exist outside of reality in order to look at it so that it exists at all? Is that observer the basis for God?

The burden of proof still rests on their shoulders. All they continue to have is, "Because, God".

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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08-06-2015, 05:13 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
Meh. Even if this interpretation of the experiments is valid, quantum effects don't translate to objects in the macro world.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-06-2015, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2015 05:52 PM by cjlr.)
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
Clicking that link gets me "page does not exist".

EDIT: gotcha, unfogged.

The fact that it took me about six hyperlinks deep to even find the abstract of the paper purportedly "discussed" (for the interested: here) would make me very, very skeptical of any claims pertaining to it.

In any case - it's to do with quantum "duality", which is a misnomer. "Particle" and "wave" are classical constructs, and to say that they aren't applicable to quantum mechanics is not in the least bit surprising. Whereas that observation in itself seems - to quote a favourite textbook of mine - "vague, incompetent, or (worst of all) profound".

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08-06-2015, 07:27 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
What we have here is an example (as if we needed another!) of what happens when reporters who know nothing of science write articles about science. Just consider the first half sentence of the article:

"An experiment by Australian scientists has proven ..."

No scientist would ever claim to have "proven" anything. Scientists accumulate evidence until a clear picture emerges, strong enough to create a consensus. The more a theory can make predictions that are confirmed by experiment, the stronger it becomes. But no single study is ever conclusive, and certainly, no single study ever "proves" anything.

The article is bullshit, and the researchers behind the study probably wish they'd never talked to the reporter.

It's not just in science. Reporters learn to write. Sadly, they seldom learn anything about the topics they report on. Once upon a time, some reporters actually tried to inform their readers and viewers. Now, the job of a reporter is merely to entertain, and for this, total ignorance of the subject is, sadly, no impediment. A reporter who knows what he's talking about is harder to find than an honest politician.

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08-06-2015, 07:57 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
(08-06-2015 07:27 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  What we have here is an example (as if we needed another!) of what happens when reporters who know nothing of science write articles about science. Just consider the first half sentence of the article:

"An experiment by Australian scientists has proven ..."

No scientist would ever claim to have "proven" anything. Scientists accumulate evidence until a clear picture emerges, strong enough to create a consensus. The more a theory can make predictions that are confirmed by experiment, the stronger it becomes. But no single study is ever conclusive, and certainly, no single study ever "proves" anything.

The article is bullshit, and the researchers behind the study probably wish they'd never talked to the reporter.

It's not just in science. Reporters learn to write. Sadly, they seldom learn anything about the topics they report on. Once upon a time, some reporters actually tried to inform their readers and viewers. Now, the job of a reporter is merely to entertain, and for this, total ignorance of the subject is, sadly, no impediment. A reporter who knows what he's talking about is harder to find than an honest politician.

I totally agree; science is about disproving hypothesis and not about proving anything (as you noted). I was skeptical upon reading the article too.
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10-06-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
Time do not exist. Past is always like a dead body and we are carrying it. It does not exist anywhere except in our mind. Future is never predictable. It does not have physical existence and is more like an imagination that is not ascertain to be as we supposed. Present is ever changing. At the moment I say present Or elaborate some scenario it becomes died it just slips away from our hand. I mean to say we can not locate present as its ever changing. So where is the time now????
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10-06-2015, 12:32 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
(08-06-2015 05:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  Meh. Even if this interpretation of the experiments is valid, quantum effects don't translate to objects in the macro world.

Thank you, I get so much shit from some about science because some atheists take what basically amounts to metaphor in scientific language meaning "if we could, on paper this is what we can project it might look like".

Laurence Krauss has said that we definitely do exist. When science uses the word "illusion" they are not claiming matter does not exist, just that from our point of view we are limited by our perspective.

Lots of science fans jump the gun with the NASA article about "the warp drive", yes NASA did say ON PAPER ONLY, that it was plausible, but the part fans missed was that it was impractical because of the material and energy needed to make it work.

It is the same mistake used with other words like "code" and "program" and even recently "hologram" which were never intended to be taken as some sort of cosmic Bill Gates replacing a old myth of a god.

Nothing even the more freaky aspects of science is pointing to any sort of cognition being a requirement for any of this to happen. So lets not replace one form of woo with si fi woo.

Science is freaky enough to me without turning it into a comic book. Theists already do a good job of twisting words, fans of science don't need to be doing that.

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10-06-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: Quantum Scientists prove that the future creates the past- WTF!!!
(10-06-2015 12:14 PM)Satyam Wrote:  So where is the time now????

It's over there, in the box in the corner. I keep it locked up in case I need it.

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