Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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05-07-2015, 07:40 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 07:00 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  TheInquisition, refer to point 2 - Quantum Mechanics actually applies on the classical scale as well. This has been experimentally verified.

Awesome, so I should be able to fly an airplane through a slit and it should show up as a wave and particle on the other side.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-07-2015, 07:49 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 07:40 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-07-2015 07:00 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  TheInquisition, refer to point 2 - Quantum Mechanics actually applies on the classical scale as well. This has been experimentally verified.

Awesome, so I should be able to fly an airplane through a slit and it should show up as a wave and particle on the other side.

That is a complete and obnoxious misunderstanding of the concept.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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05-07-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
From my «pagan» understanding of your post, I think you make a critical mistake. QM is only relevant to describe accurately the realm of particle and its interaction. It's incapable of drawing correct conclusion on a large scale. QM is a work in progress. There is no «theory of everything» or a theory that explain the interaction of everything in the universe if you prefer. You are thus using a flawed tool to draw conclusions outside of its realm of use.
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05-07-2015, 08:12 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

Yeah...

We all saw that movie...

Big deal.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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05-07-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
I'll be back later with more responses. I've gained a child since I've been gone. Wink

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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05-07-2015, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 09:38 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  1.) God is generally defined as the intelligent causal agent of our reality.
The being in this argument is intelligent, as intelligence is required to process platonic (coherent) information.
2.) God is generally defined as omnipresent.
The being in this argument would be outside our four dimensions.

Al yet another "god of the gaps". "Causation" requires space-time. Information "processing" requires time. "Outside" in the absence of space is meaningless.

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Being that technically anyone in the fifth dimension is no longer bound to where you are in time, you would have access to the dimension of time at will. You would appear to be omnipresent as a result.

Nice. But you have no evidence for it, other then your "logic", which is insufficient.

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  3.) God is generally defined as omnipotent.

Then why doesn't she do something about all the starving babies ?

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  This is compatible with something that processes the information that our universe is made of. If you were processing all the information that makes up our universe, you would be capable of altering any information at will. You would technically be "omnipotent".

Then your god is a giant dick. You know how many kids died from cancer yesterday ?

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  If there's also no evidence for multiple untestable universes, then yes, this argument is not evidence. I am completely open to discussing the "evidences" for the Many-worlds hypothesis - for which many physicists and theorists are famous for adhering so closely to.

I'll wait for the EVIDENCE.

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  We know that minds arise only from brain systems? Who's "we"?

Neuro-science, and YOU have no evidence for consciousness emerging from anything other than complex biological systems at the molecular level.

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Phthalocyanine Molecules
"masses of 514 AMU and 1,298 AMU respectively."
http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v7/n...12.34.html
Film Bulk Acoustic Resonator
"A Mechanical Resonator consisting of trillions of atoms visible with the naked eye."
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/f...0.130.html
A conscious mind is required for the results of the experiments.

And WE are conscious. Chaos Theory has proven then it this universe, order arises spontaneously. See my name ? I am a bucky ball. I know about these things. Tongue

None of any of this leads to any deities. "God" is a bad habit your brain has, you need to divest yourself of. Big Grin

There are no "proofs" for the gods. Faith is a gift. St. Paul tole me that, (and so did Jebus "No one shall come to me unless the Father draw him").

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-07-2015, 08:34 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2015 09:28 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 08:19 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I'll be back later with more responses. I've gained a child since I've been gone. Wink

That is the ONLY really good thing you said here. In fact I was thinking earlier, (before I read that), "Why the fuck doesn't he just fall in love and make babies. He'll be a good dad, and dump all this god shit".

You can't use concepts that apply to ONLY this universe, (until they've been proven to apply to others, or to what is not in this universe).
Sean Carroll (physicist from Cal Tech) tried to explain this the WLC. He either didn't get it, or chose to ignore it.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-07-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  This argument supports several characteristics of a general definition of 'god'.

1.) God is generally defined as the intelligent causal agent of our reality.
The being in this argument is intelligent, as intelligence is required to process platonic (coherent) information
2.) God is generally defined as omnipresent.
The being in this argument would be outside our four dimensions.
Being that technically anyone in the fifth dimension is no longer bound to where you are in time, you would have access to the dimension of time at will. You would appear to be omnipresent as a result.
3.) God is generally defined as omnipotent.
This is compatible with something that processes the information that our universe is made of. If you were processing all the information that makes up our universe, you would be capable of altering any information at will. You would technically be "omnipotent".
4.) This obviously applies to omniscience as well since the being processing the information needs to know what they are processing.

OK Thanks. A couple of points to make about this however. I don't care what is GENERALLY defined. How do YOU define it? For sake of argument, say that there is a higher being of some sort. This does not mean that they are all knowing. If a carpenter builds a bookshelf, does that mean that he even has a clue what cellulose is, how it's made, what it is used for, how photosynthesis works, the germination process, or any of the myriad of chemical processes that go on in a tree? Or literally everything about the harvesting of the tree, including everything about the machines that are used en route to him? Probably not. At least nothing that you could assume he knows. So can this carpenter take the components and build a bookshelf without knowing every detail about a tree? Absolutely. The omni's are just a GOTG argument which is really just an argument from ignorance. That does also not mean that this creature is everywhere WITHIN the universe. You even say this in point 2!! Appearing omnipresent does not mean that it is so. This goes for all of the omni's. If you dropped me as I am now 100 years ago, I would appear like I knew everything. And yet I don't. This is also reinforced in Clarke's 3rd law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

(05-07-2015 07:01 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  If there's also no evidence for multiple untestable universes, then yes, this argument is not evidence. I am completely open to discussing the "evidences" for the Many-worlds hypothesis - for which many physicists and theorists are famous for adhering so closely to.

So how does this even get you to deism?

I am still checking out your other stuff.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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05-07-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(05-07-2015 08:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And WE are conscious. Chaos Theory has proven then it this universe, order arises spontaneously. See my name ? I am a bucky ball. I know about these things. Tongue

But what if you are just a battery? A battery that some other world is using to power itself and this is just a simulation to fool you? Mr. Anderson Bucky.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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05-07-2015, 09:38 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
I've seen this "hologram" mindset before.

As I recall, it implicitly begged a question of whether certain quantum quirks indicated some flaw in a "simulation" of the universe, rather than simply some property of the universe. Why shouldn't the universe itself be quantum? Why must this point to some limitation of some external reality? If the experiment with two interferometers points to space vibrating... in what way, at all, would that demonstrate this hologram principle? How would you discern that from it simply being an interesting property of space itself absent a hologram?

Your question-begging reaches a crescendo when you reach your final point about some sort of platonic mind behind everything. Even if we swallow everything up to that point, not a single shred of evidence, or even a cohesive argument, is made for consciousness, decision-making (beyond the sort made by automatic algorithms), will, personality, preference, or desire. You are not making a case for the personal deity of theism. It is at best a poorly-supported argument for the all-animating divine spirit of panentheism, which is quite distinct from theism.
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