Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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29-08-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
Heywood because a theory is strange and difficult to understand does not give one position to say Ah Hah God did it. Where are the testable results of the God did it hypothesis of QED?

If you want to learn about the workings of Nature read the science. Here start with Wiki:

Quantum electrodynamics (QED), a relativistic quantum field theory of electrodynamics, is among the most stringently tested theories in physics.

The most precise and specific tests of QED consist of measurements of the electromagnetic fine structure constant, α, in various physical systems. Checking the consistency of such measurements tests the theory.

Tests of a theory are normally carried out by comparing experimental results to theoretical predictions. In QED, there is some subtlety in this comparison, because theoretical predictions require as input an extremely precise value of α, which can only be obtained from another precision QED experiment. Because of this, the comparisons between theory and experiment are usually quoted as independent determinations of α. QED is then confirmed to the extent that these measurements of α from different physical sources agree with each other.

The agreement found this way is to within ten parts in a billion (10−8), based on the comparison of the electron anomalous magnetic dipole moment and the Rydberg constant from atom recoil measurements as described below. This makes QED one of the most accurate physical theories constructed thus far.

Besides these independent measurements of the fine-structure constant, many other predictions of QED have been tested as well

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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29-08-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 04:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics makes a lot more sense when you posit a God introducing randomness into this reality.

No.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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29-08-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 08:16 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Heywood because a theory is strange and difficult to understand does not give one position to say Ah Hah God did it. Where are the testable results of the God did it hypothesis of QED?

Ted, if you saw an amputee miraculously have his limb restored would that evidence of God's existence? To many atheists that would be evidence of God's existence because it is an effect without a local cause. Effects without local causes are exactly the sort of thing we should observe if there is a God who created and maintains this world. Do we see them? Yes we do at the quantum level.

All these effects that we see without apparent causes cannot be caused by local hidden variables....Bell's theorem. This isn't a God of the gaps argument but rather just noting we are observing the type of things, effects without local causes, that we should expect to observe if God created and maintains this world.

Does it prove God? No it does not. Does it make it more likely the proposition "God exists" is true? I think it does.
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29-08-2015, 01:26 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 12:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 08:16 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Heywood because a theory is strange and difficult to understand does not give one position to say Ah Hah God did it. Where are the testable results of the God did it hypothesis of QED?

Ted, if you saw an amputee miraculously have his limb restored would that evidence of God's existence? To many atheists that would be evidence of God's existence because it is an effect without a local cause.

No, it might be evidence because it is something that has never been known to occur in humans and for which there is no known biological mechanism.

The cause might or might not be local - we don't know.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 12:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Does it prove God? No it does not. Does it make it more likely the proposition "God exists" is true? I think it does.

And you're wrong.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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29-08-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 12:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-08-2015 08:16 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Heywood because a theory is strange and difficult to understand does not give one position to say Ah Hah God did it. Where are the testable results of the God did it hypothesis of QED?

Ted, if you saw an amputee miraculously have his limb restored would that evidence of God's existence? To many atheists that would be evidence of God's existence because it is an effect without a local cause. Effects without local causes are exactly the sort of thing we should observe if there is a God who created and maintains this world. Do we see them? Yes we do at the quantum level.

All these effects that we see without apparent causes cannot be caused by local hidden variables....Bell's theorem. This isn't a God of the gaps
argument but rather just noting we are observing the type of things, effects without local causes, that we should expect to observe if God created and maintains this world.

Does it prove God? No it does not. Does it make it more likely the proposition "God exists" is true? I think it does.

Haywood, How is the supernatural magic explanation more likely? How do we prove this experimentally? The beauty of science is that there are no authorities no absolute truths in science only degrees of uncertainty. If an amputee was to regrow a limb, highly improbable since we are mammalian primates, why make up a supernatural explanation. Why not do the science and look at the genome of the individual. Look to see if there was a mutation in this individual that caused one of the same HOX genes that we share with our amphibian cousins to be turned back on effecting stem cell regeneration at the limb sight. We would then have a verifiable/falsifiable
explanation. If we could not explain it experimentally it would fall under one of the many natural phenomena that we do not yet understand and need to work on. How would it make it more likely that magic did it?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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30-08-2015, 12:30 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(29-08-2015 03:07 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Haywood, How is the supernatural magic explanation more likely? How do we prove this experimentally? The beauty of science is that there are no authorities no absolute truths in science only degrees of uncertainty. If an amputee was to regrow a limb, highly improbable since we are mammalian primates, why make up a supernatural explanation. Why not do the science and look at the genome of the individual. Look to see if there was a mutation in this individual that caused one of the same HOX genes that we share with our amphibian cousins to be turned back on effecting stem cell regeneration at the limb sight. We would then have a verifiable/falsifiable
explanation. If we could not explain it experimentally it would fall under one of the many natural phenomena that we do not yet understand and need to work on. How would it make it more likely that magic did it?

Ted,

It really looks to me that you assume God doesn't exist so you then go on to conclude God doesn't exist.....therefore you outright reject any notion of God. Maybe I am wrong but that is the way I see it right now.

How is God a supernatural magical explanation and say many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics not? What criteria are you using to call one explanation magical and not the other? Or do you believe many worlds is a magical explanation too?

I don't believe in magic. Things just don't happen magically....without physical causes. This is precisely why I reject this notion of irreducible randomness to explain quantum effects that have no local causes. Effects happening without causes make no sense....they are nonsensical in the strongest sense of the word in my opinion.

Now I see a few plausible explanations to explain why we observe effects without local causes. If you have other explanations or can rule out one or more of the 3 below, I would like to hear you explanations/ rejection argument.

1. God
2. Many worlds.
3. Block theory of time or eternalism.

I find 1 more plausible than 2 or 3 for reason I won't go into in this thread. Lets keep this thread about Quantum and digital physics.
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30-08-2015, 05:12 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
If a motherfucker cannot tell the difference between theory and theology, there really ain't no point to having a scientific discussion.

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30-08-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(30-08-2015 12:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How is God a supernatural magical explanation and say many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics not?

Well, one involves a wizard.

(30-08-2015 12:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't believe in magic. Things just don't happen magically....without physical causes. This is precisely why I reject this notion of irreducible randomness to explain quantum effects that have no local causes. Effects happening without causes make no sense....they are nonsensical in the strongest sense of the word in my opinion.

Your failure to understand quantum mechanics is not an argument.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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30-08-2015, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 30-08-2015 11:43 AM by Ted Tucker.)
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
Heywood,

You do not get off that easily. You can not say that a God or a God Force is more likely without first scientifically defining what this God is so that it can be tested experimentally. How do we test your definition experimentally? How can it be falsified? If your definition of God is all things that we have not yet demonstrated or cannot at this time demonstrate experimentally/scientifically, then your definition of this God is a non-definition.

As for Quantum Electrodynamics, its scientific definitions and predictions can be demonstrated experimentally with an exceedingly high degree of repeatable accuracy to 10 in Billion!

If I say "let there be light" and flip a light switch and photons are created. Am I God or is there a better scientific explanation?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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