Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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30-08-2015, 11:43 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(30-08-2015 11:11 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 11:04 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  How convienent

Do you have anything relevant to add to this thread?

No

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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31-08-2015, 01:14 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(30-08-2015 10:25 AM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Heywood,

You do not get off that easily. You can not say that a God or a God Force is more likely without first scientifically defining what this God is so that it can be tested experimentally. How do we test your definition experimentally? How can it be falsified? If your definition of God is all things that we have not yet demonstrated or cannot at this time demonstrate experimentally/scientifically, then your definition of this God is a non-definition.

As for Quantum Electrodynamics, its scientific definitions and predictions can be demonstrated experimentally with an exceedingly high degree of repeatable accuracy to 10 in Billion!

If I say "let there be light" and flip a light switch and photons are created. Am I God or is there a better scientific explanation?

Science is a good method for making judgments about reality. However it does suffer from a flaw. It assumes what you see is all there is and this assumption can lead to very wrong conclusions.

Imagine 50 billion years from now a solar system forms around a young star. On one of the planet life emerges and eventually very human like beings evolve. If they looked up into their night sky, they wouldn't detect hundreds of billions of galaxies like we do. All those galaxies would be outside their observable universe due cosmic expansion. They wouldn't detect the cosmic background radiation left over from the big bang....it would have long since red-shifted so much it could no longer be detected. If a being on that planet believed in billions of billions of galaxies, they would be right, but there would be no way to falsify or confirm his/her claim. The science community would likely believe that only their galaxy or cluster is all there is.

When we make observations of the quantum level. We observe things I expect we should see if God creates and maintains this world. Namely we observe effects without any local causes. Some believe the un-falsifiable notion that at the quantum level exists irreducible randomness. Irreducible randomness is nonsense. Quantum mechanics allows for non-local hidden variables and since in my experience effects always have causes...I'm going to put my faith in non-local variables. It just makes more sense.
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31-08-2015, 01:39 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
Hi! Some time between sleeping and working. Enough for a short posting. Smile

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Science is a good method for making judgments about reality. However it does suffer from a flaw. It assumes what you see is all there is and this assumption can lead to very wrong conclusions.

Okay... but then how might one even conceive of things that are beyond everything we're familiar with in regards to reality?

Is a conundrum, within a mystery, within an enigma, within a riddle, within a question, within a mystification, within a perplexity, within a puzzlment isn't it?

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Imagine 50 billion years from now a solar system forms around a young star. On one of the planet life emerges and eventually very human like beings evolve. If they looked up into their night sky, they wouldn't detect hundreds of billions of galaxies like we do. All those galaxies would be outside their observable universe due cosmic expansion. They wouldn't detect the cosmic background radiation left over from the big bang....it would have long since red-shifted so much it could no longer be detected. If a being on that planet believed in billions of billions of galaxies, they would be right, but there would be no way to falsify or confirm his/her claim. The science community would likely believe that only their galaxy or cluster is all there is.

This is little more than an obfuscation on your part. Now, definitely NOT being a Cosmologist nor and Astronomer, I am not in any position to mention a lot of things which might lead some one from said time knowing anything about what has gone on before hand.

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  When we make observations of the quantum level. We observe things I expect we should see if God creates and maintains this world. Namely we observe effects without any local causes. Some believe the un-falsifiable notion that at the quantum level exists irreducible randomness. Irreducible randomness is nonsense. Quantum mechanics allows for non-local hidden variables and since in my experience effects always have causes...I'm going to put my faith in non-local variables. It just makes more sense.

Except said deity STILL cannot exceed or break the boundaries which are imposed by the speed of light. That's a problem, isn't it? Said deity simply can not be every where it needs to be at once. Our reality simply will not allow such a thing to be. Hence, why i was mentioning LOTS of deities, every where, doing everything you propose said deities have to do. Each one's area taking over outside the 'Light reach/speed/distance' of another deity.

So far, you only response to said problem (Paradox?) is to thence shift said deity outside of everything we know.... which leaves then the problem of how it reaches back inside etc.

Heh, and here is was saying 'little' post... Blush

Will get back to our comfy corner shortly, promise. Smile
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31-08-2015, 01:54 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
My thread seems to be taking an odd direction.. meh
Not that I care. Just noticing.

(31-08-2015 01:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Except said deity STILL cannot exceed or break the boundaries which are imposed by the speed of light. That's a problem, isn't it? Said deity simply can not be every where it needs to be at once. Our reality simply will not allow such a thing to be.

Entanglement is an example of something violating relativity. That's the first thing that comes to mind when someone says something cannot exceed the speed of light. As I have just linked to, Bell's Theorem shows such a violation.

Also, as far as something being "everywhere at once" - it is, in theory, possible. It wouldn't be in the more literal sense that you would think.

As we all know, there are several dimensions to our reality. We reside and understand four of them (x, y, z and time). Say someone were to be able to access the next dimension up from 'ours', that person would appear to be everywhere at once. They would (As Niel D. Tyson puts it) "no longer be bound to where you are in time".

https://youtu.be/l7tV7v71k-I?t=12m22s

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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31-08-2015, 01:59 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Science is a good method for making judgments about reality. However it does suffer from a flaw. It assumes what you see is all there is and this assumption can lead to very wrong conclusions.

No it does not. Science is constantly trying to disprove itself. There is no assumption that this is all there is.

You are either lying or very confused as to the nature of scientific research.

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Imagine 50 billion years from now a solar system forms around a young star.

No. You are attempting to avoid and then change the subject.

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  When we make observations of the quantum level. We observe things I expect we should see if God creates and maintains this world.

Of course you do. It's called Confirmation bias. What you see is unimportant. It's what everyone can see that matters.

(31-08-2015 01:14 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm going to put my faith in non-local variables. It just makes more sense.


Nobody here is interested in your faith. It is meaningless to us.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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31-08-2015, 02:05 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 01:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Is a conundrum, within a mystery, within an enigma, within a riddle, within a question, within a mystification, within a perplexity, within a puzzlment isn't it?

Nobody has experience with reality splitting into two sub realities. But Hugh Everett conceived of it in order to explain some of the mysterious observations of quantum mechanics.

(31-08-2015 01:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  This is little more than an obfuscation on your part. Now, definitely NOT being a Cosmologist nor and Astronomer, I am not in any position to mention a lot of things which might lead some one from said time knowing anything about what has gone on before hand.

The point is some things we cannot observe or test.....its just the way reality is set up. If we rely only upon what we can observe or test we can still come up with conclusions that are flat out wrong. Science is very far from being a perfect method for understanding the world.

(31-08-2015 01:39 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Except said deity STILL cannot exceed or break the boundaries which are imposed by the speed of light. That's a problem, isn't it? Said deity simply can not be every where it needs to be at once. Our reality simply will not allow such a thing to be. Hence, why i was mentioning LOTS of deities, every where, doing everything you propose said deities have to do. Each one's area taking over outside the 'Light reach/speed/distance' of another deity.

So far, you only response to said problem (Paradox?) is to thence shift said deity outside of everything we know.... which leaves then the problem of how it reaches back inside etc.

The speed of light only applies to information that moves through space. It does not apply to information that moves into space. Suppose our reality is actually simulated. Consider two entangled particles. One is detected to have spin up and the other instantaneously takes on the spin down state. It is not that information is passing through space from one particle to another but rather the program which is non local to us is telling both particles what state they should be in at the same time.
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31-08-2015, 02:19 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 01:59 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Of course you do. It's called Confirmation bias. What you see is unimportant. It's what everyone can see that matters.

If effects without local causes is not evidence of God's existence, what is? I think in most peoples minds an effect without a local cause is a miracle. What would be more miraculous?
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31-08-2015, 02:25 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 01:59 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Of course you do. It's called Confirmation bias. What you see is unimportant. It's what everyone can see that matters.

If effects without local causes is not evidence of God's existence, what is?

Effects without local causes could just be part of the design of the virtual reality simulation we collectively call existence. We're all just brains floating in vats experiencing this programmed simulation.

That explanation is just as unfalsifiable, and with just as good explanatory power as your god.

The null hyposthesis jackass, learn it. Drinking Beverage

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31-08-2015, 02:30 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 01:54 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  My thread seems to be taking an odd direction.. meh
Not that I care. Just noticing.

Make yourself comfortable private....this is going to be a long and convoluted thread.
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31-08-2015, 02:33 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If effects without local causes is not evidence of God's existence, what is? I think in most peoples minds an effect without a local cause is a miracle. What would be more miraculous?

Effects without local causes could mean a number of things on it's own.
It doesn't make sense to posit a deity in the works of particle interaction.
I don't want to seem dismissive, but it's simply a scientific phenomena that is still undergoing tests and observations.

As far as miraculous, as far as I know, miracles are something that violate the laws that govern our universe. Quantum Physics describes our universe with simply different laws. I wouldn't call that "miraculous". I would call that "science".

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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