Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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31-08-2015, 02:34 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 01:54 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  My thread seems to be taking an odd direction.. meh
Not that I care. Just noticing.

Make yourself comfortable private....this is going to be a long and convoluted thread.

This thread began convoluted from the beginning.. It's a mess lol

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31-08-2015, 02:47 AM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2015 02:56 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:33 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I don't want to seem dismissive, but it's simply a scientific phenomena that is still undergoing tests and observations.

As far as miraculous, as far as I know, miracles are something that violate the laws that govern our universe. Quantum Physics describes our universe with simply different laws. I wouldn't call that "miraculous". I would call that "science".

Warning! Convolution Ahead!

Suppose an amputee goes up to Benny Hinn and asks him to restore a limb. Benny Hinn lays his hands upon the man, says "alleluia" and the man's limb is restored. That would be a miracle wouldn't it? Now suppose another amputee approaches Benny and the same thing occurs.

How many amputees would need to have there limbs miraculously restored before the miracle becomes a law which governs our universe?

Einstein coined "spooky action at a distant" because what he was naming violated the laws which govern the universe.....at least until the laws changed....now its not spooky action at a distance. Its simply the effects of entanglement.
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31-08-2015, 02:56 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 02:33 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I don't want to seem dismissive, but it's simply a scientific phenomena that is still undergoing tests and observations.

As far as miraculous, as far as I know, miracles are something that violate the laws that govern our universe. Quantum Physics describes our universe with simply different laws. I wouldn't call that "miraculous". I would call that "science".

Warning! Convolution Ahead!

Suppose an amputee goes up to Benny Hinn and asks him to restore a limb. Benny Hinn lays his hands upon the man, says "alleluia" and the man's limb is restored. That would be a miracle wouldn't it? Now suppose another amputee approaches Benny and the same thing occurs.

Congrats, we might now have evidence that limbs have be restored (I wouldn't trust it unless it was reproducible in a controlled environment). However there is still a huge gulf between 'this phenomena has occurred' and 'this is proof for my particular interpretation of a preliterate desert war god'.


(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How many amputees would need to have there limbs miraculously restored before the miracle becomes a law which governs our universe?

Don't know, but probably a lot. Insofar as the event would need to be reproducible in controlled environments so that variable can be accounted for so that we might better study and assess the mechanism at work.


(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Einstein coined "spooky action at a distant" because what he was naming violated the laws which govern the universe.....at least until the laws changed.

But Einstein actually provided evidence, you'd done nothing but assume your conclusions, special pleading, and begging the question.

So, you know, there is that... Drinking Beverage

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31-08-2015, 04:06 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:34 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 02:30 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Make yourself comfortable private....this is going to be a long and convoluted thread.

This thread began convoluted from the beginning.. It's a mess lol

Yeah, once dildo stuck his useless head in, downhill it goes. This other one ain't helping, either. I think it's a good thread. Despite objecting to your conclusions, you're doing the thinking thing. Thumbsup

(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suppose an amputee goes up to Benny Hinn and asks him to restore a limb. Benny Hinn lays his hands upon the man, says "alleluia" and the man's limb is restored. That would be a miracle wouldn't it?

Don't you mean Benny Hill? These days I wouldn't think "miracle," I'd think "nanotech." But without a mechanism of restoration, it is useless to science.

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31-08-2015, 06:10 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If effects without local causes is not evidence of God's existence, what is?

That is the wrong question.

What you should be trying to find the answer to is "how are effects without local causes evidence of a god's existence?" "I think it's rather spooky" is not a reason.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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31-08-2015, 06:11 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(30-08-2015 10:26 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Note that the concept of "god" is untestable.

Then it's a garage dragon, and is by definition untrue.

If there is no way to test the claim, no way it could ever be proven correct under any circumstance, then there is no way to say that it is real.

(30-08-2015 10:26 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  It just turns out that this sort of data lined up with a conscious information processing concept.

It really doesn't.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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31-08-2015, 08:00 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 06:11 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 10:26 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  It just turns out that this sort of data lined up with a conscious information processing concept.

It really doesn't.

Astute opinion. Or something.

You read through the thread, right?

Do you have some reasons behind your "It really doesn't" statement based on what you've read so far?
I appreciate your thorough response.

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31-08-2015, 08:03 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 06:11 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-08-2015 10:26 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Note that the concept of "god" is untestable.

Then it's a garage dragon, and is by definition untrue.

If there is no way to test the claim, no way it could ever be proven correct under any circumstance, then there is no way to say that it is real.

Slight correction here: There is no way we can know it is real.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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31-08-2015, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2015 09:41 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Einstein coined "spooky action at a distant" because what he was naming violated the laws which govern the universe.....at least until the laws changed....now its not spooky action at a distance. Its simply the effects of entanglement.

Biblical "miracles" are perfectly natural events in which a person of faith either choses to, or does, see "the hand of God working". If something "happens", then it is *natural* for that to happen. Nothing "unnatural" ever happens. Improbable, or unusual...maybe. "Miraculous" ... never. There has never ever been an event that cannot be observed as a "natural" event.

The laws of the universe, did not change. Einstein created a phrase to describe what he found unusal, given his understanding. He was seriously incorrect about a number of things. There are no "laws of the universe". That is a human construct. There are current human understandings concerning the way we perceive thingS to apparently work. Clearly in this cace, the fact that information (seems to) move faster than light, means there is something fundamental about the way this universe works, yet to be worked out.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-08-2015, 08:29 AM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(31-08-2015 08:14 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-08-2015 02:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Einstein coined "spooky action at a distant" because what he was naming violated the laws which govern the universe.....at least until the laws changed....now its not spooky action at a distance. Its simply the effects of entanglement.

Biblical "miracles" are perfectly natural events in which a person of faith either choses to, or does, see "the hand of God working". If something "happens", then it is *natural* for that to happen. Nothing "unnatural" ever happens. Improbable, or unusual...maybe. "Miraculous" ... never. There has never ever been an event that cannot be observed as a "natural" event.

The laws of the universe, did not change. Einstein created a phrase to describe what he found unusal, given his understanding. He was seriously incorrect about a number of things. There are no "laws of the universe". That is a human construct. There are current human understandings concerning the way we perceive thing to apparently work. Clearly in this cace, the fact that information moves faster than light, means there is something fundamental about the way this universe works, yet to be worked out.

Said it better than I could. I was going to point out how Benny Hinn was a terrible example to use (also because he is generally a terrible person for leeching off the ignorance of others) mainly because he has been exposed as a fraud already.

James Randi is a guy that actually has tested supernatural claims the way we should and can test them. He has debunked a number of supposed 'psychics' and that's the way I approach these sorts of claims. I don't just assume they are false, I simply take no position on them until I see them tested.
So in the case of Benny Hinn and the restored amputations, I would take James Randi's approach, I would not just assume it's evidence of the existence of a deity:




“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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