Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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08-09-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 05:43 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Most people would define God as the first cause. The effects we observe without causes occur at the quantum level....the foundation of our reality where all cause and effect chains begin.

Fallacious equivocation.

"First cause", in the context of the god concept you are referring to, refers to the idea that the god is responsible for the creation of the universe. "The foundation of reality where all cause and effect chains begin" is not equivalent, is another meaningless non-phrase, fails to understand the concept of stochastic causal relationships, and is generally silly.

Your argument boils down to "it's not random, it's God", which is pointless unless you can demonstrate some behavior in the apparently random systems which indicates the necessity of a deific power behind it. Otherwise, your "god" is just a garage dragon playing with dice - and garage dragons, as I'm sure everyone on this forum is sick of hearing me say by now, don't exist.

(08-09-2015 05:51 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Someone claimed that "non-local causal agent" is not a common definition of God....but really given the way our world works.....it is the same as one of the most common definitions of God out there.

No, it isn't.

"Non-local causal agent" can, under quantum mechanics, refer to entirely mundane physical entities. Even ignoring that issue and looking to entirely supernatural ones, "non-local causal agent" is so broad that it could refer to literally any entity to which magical powers have been ascribed.

The only part of your "definition" that distinguishes your concept of gods from any of these other entities is that clause which you keep attempting to pretend isn't there - the one which says that the deity is responsible for various "fundamental" things.

Unfortunately, that part of the definition is meaningless and incoherent.

(08-09-2015 05:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As it turns out my conclusions about God's existence are based on observations of the natural world.

Followed by misinterpretation of what you saw, yes.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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08-09-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
Heywood usually runs away when the questions become difficult. He then thinks up some reason to blame the other person before returning, claiming to have been insulted and updated his signature.

This pattern seems to help him carry his cross with his head held high. Or he thinks up another reason. For example, he said just a few days ago he was going on holiday and wouldn't be here. And yet here he is, or now isn't.....

It is hard to keep up with all his excuses.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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08-09-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 12:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 12:07 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Pain and suffering have been great motivators for humanity. Would we have bothered to master fire if we didn't get cold?

But I hope you can see Bucky's "argument", that pain and suffering are excessive, isn't really an argument at all. It is just an opinion.

Please explain how the pain and suffering of parasitic diseases, especially in children, is not excessive.

It promotes survival, (of the parasites). Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-09-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not arguing for the best of all possible worlds. You are just strawmanning.

If your argument is that suffering is necessary, then you are.

Sorry. I didn't make up your bad argument; you did.

(08-09-2015 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What I am doing is tearing down the atheist's argument, that because pain and suffering exists a "good" God cannot exist.

That is not "the atheist's argument".

(08-09-2015 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  All such arguments made by atheists amount to just the rendering of a subjective opinion. "God didn't make the world the way I would have made it so He can't exist." They are silly arguments and shouldn't be entertained. They certainly should not be relied upon to come to the conclusion that God does not exist.

All such arguments are made by theists. That's why atheists reject them. Because they are obviously and necessarily, how shall we say, a rendering of a subjective opinion.

One would think that in your years here you might have tried to understand what other people are actually telling you.

(08-09-2015 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I think it is silly to apply labels like "good" or "bad" to God. Those labels only convey our feelings and say nothing about His existence or lack thereof.

They render any "belief" utterly meaningless. An incomprehensible and ineffable god is indistinguishable by definition from a deistic god or indeed no god at all.

In which case - who the fuck cares?

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08-09-2015, 09:53 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 08:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 12:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  Please explain how the pain and suffering of parasitic diseases, especially in children, is not excessive.

It promotes survival, (of the parasites). Yes

We can argue if a hangnail is excessive or not but that would be a waste of time. "Excessive" is an opinion....It is not a fact of nature. Arguing about it is silly because nobody can be right or wrong.
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08-09-2015, 09:53 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
Quote:Most people would define God as the first cause. The effects we observe without causes occur at the quantum level....the foundation of our reality where all cause and effect chains begin.

Prove it. You do realize I hope, you contradicted yourself there.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-09-2015, 09:55 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 09:53 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 08:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It promotes survival, (of the parasites). Yes

We can argue if a hangnail is excessive or not but that would be a waste of time. "Excessive" is an opinion....It is not a fact of nature. Arguing about it is silly because nobody can be right or wrong.

Nice try at devaluing suffering. The pain and suffering of starving children, and cancer ridden infants are in no way equivalent to hang nails. Did Jebus make you such an empathetic idiot ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-09-2015, 09:59 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 06:43 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Or he thinks up another reason. For example, he said just a few days ago he was going on holiday and wouldn't be here. And yet here he is, or now isn't.....

I went camping...for four days.....you know....over the labor day holiday. If you search, you won't find any post from me on the 4th, 5th, 6th, and maybe even the 7th(I got back on the 7th).

You're making an ass out of yourself with these silly accusations.
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08-09-2015, 10:03 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 09:59 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 06:43 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Or he thinks up another reason. For example, he said just a few days ago he was going on holiday and wouldn't be here. And yet here he is, or now isn't.....

I went camping...for four days.....you know....over the labor day holiday. If you search, you won't find any post from me on the 4th, 5th, 6th, and maybe even the 7th(I got back on the 7th).

You're making an ass out of yourself with these silly accusations.

We celebrated your "riddance".
Banana_zorro Banana_zorro Banana_zorro Banana_zorro

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-09-2015, 10:14 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(08-09-2015 09:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(08-09-2015 09:53 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  We can argue if a hangnail is excessive or not but that would be a waste of time. "Excessive" is an opinion....It is not a fact of nature. Arguing about it is silly because nobody can be right or wrong.

Nice try at devaluing suffering. The pain and suffering of starving children, and cancer ridden infants are in no way equivalent to hang nails. Did Jebus make you such an empathetic idiot ?

You spelled Jesus wrong.....and I forgive you for calling me an idiot.

What you are doing is trying to appeal to peoples emotions instead of making a rational argument.

You suffer pain when a nociceptor(a kind of sensory neuron) fires a signal off to your brain. In theory we can quantify the amount of pain a person feels by counting the number of nociceptors signals that reach the brain. How many nociceptor firings is excessive and how many are just right and how many are not enough? Use some math to show what the optimal amount of suffering is.

What I am asking you to do is prove your claim that there is too much suffering in this world. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. We don't want your opinion because it is worthless. Show us some hard data that the amount of suffering in this world is sub optimal.
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