Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
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09-09-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Except in the case of quantum mechanics, where it is posited that events are truly random. Do you even know what you are arguing for at this point?

Quantum mechanics does not posit that events are truly random. You don't know what you are talking about. Irreducible randomness is just an interpretation.

(09-09-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Are you arguing that quantum mechanics is effectively random, but God is determining the results of every dice roll in such a way that it is indistinguishable from a truly random system? If so, your god is a garage dragon, and does not exist by definition.

A garage dragon that does not exist by definition? You are not making a counter argument. You are assuming God doesn't exist by definition and then concluding that God doesn't exist based on your assumption. Trash can thinking.

(09-09-2015 11:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Or are you arguing that quantum mechanics is not random at all, but that everything that appears to be random is simply the result of non-local causal relationships that we currently lack the practical ability to observe? If so, you simply have no evidence for your god, as these non-local causal relationships have mundane mechanics posited for them.

First you claim(errantly) that quantum mechanics posits randomness then you claim that these apparently random effects have mundane mechanics behind them. Your contradicting yourself and Bell's theorem shows you are just plain wrong.
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09-09-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 11:24 AM)cjlr Wrote:  This is not complicated. For what purpose do you pretend to be so stupid?

His brain "leaked out" to another universe when his Dark Matter leaked in.
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-09-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics does not posit that events are truly random.

Yes, it does.

You are correct in stating that it is only one interpretation, but again, this is beside the point. I don't particularly care whether or not quantum mechanics is truly random. I care about your arguments for the existence of God, and they rest on whether or not you support the idea that quantum mechanics is truly random.

(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A garage dragon that does not exist by definition? You are not making a counter argument. You are assuming God doesn't exist by definition and then concluding that God doesn't exist based on your assumption. Trash can thinking.

No, it isn't. Garage dragons are defined as non-existent. That is the whole point of the garage dragon concept.

(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  First you claim(errantly) that quantum mechanics posits randomness then you claim that these apparently random effects have mundane mechanics behind them. Your contradicting yourself

No. Again, I do not care whether or not quantum mechanics is truly random. I am attempting to make sense of your argument.

(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  and Bell's theorem shows you are just plain wrong.

It does no such thing.

Bell's theorem states that non-local causal relationships are necessary to explain quantum mechanics. It does not state that these non-local causal relationships are in any way supernatural.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics does not posit that events are truly random. You don't know what you are talking about. Irreducible randomness is just an interpretation.

Then post the probabilities for the events in question, who did the tests, and computed the probabilities, and provide 2 references for your claims.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-09-2015, 12:27 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:23 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:11 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics does not posit that events are truly random.

Yes, it does.

Except that is doesn't. Indeterminacy is not randomness.
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09-09-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:27 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Except that is doesn't.

Wonderful. It remains irrelevant.

I take it from your absolute insistence that no form of quantum mechanics posits true randomness that you assume, in your argument, that all otherwise-indeterminate quantum events are determined by non-local causal agents.

How does this constitute evidence for the existence of a god?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:27 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:23 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Yes, it does.

Except that is doesn't. Indeterminacy is not randomness.

Explain the difference, and provide 2 references.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-09-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 12:35 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 12:27 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Except that is doesn't.

Wonderful. It remains irrelevant.

I take it from your absolute insistence that no form of quantum mechanics posits true randomness that you assume, in your argument, that all otherwise-indeterminate quantum events are determined by non-local causal agents.

How does this constitute evidence for the existence of a god?

There is a certain probability that God exists. Let us call this probability X as it is unknown to us. If God does not exist X=0, if God does exist X=1.

Now if a God exists who created and maintains this world we would expect to see observations which do not have local causes. If we look and find that all effects have causes, X would move closer toward 0. If we look and find that some effects do not have local causes X moves closer toward 1.

Since we have an observation that moves X closer to one, that observation can be considered evidence for God's existence.

Does it prove God's existence? It does not but it is still evidence non the less.
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09-09-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 01:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now if a God exists who created and maintains this world we would expect to see observations which do not have local causes.

This could also be the case if there is no god, so finding that it is the case is not evidence either way.

(09-09-2015 01:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If we look and find that all effects have causes, X would move closer toward 0. If we look and find that some effects do not have local causes X moves closer toward 1.

"Non-local causal relationships" is not equivalent to "some events don't have causes".

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Quantum and Digital Physics argument for the existence of God.
(09-09-2015 02:05 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(09-09-2015 01:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now if a God exists who created and maintains this world we would expect to see observations which do not have local causes.

This could also be the case if there is no god, so finding that it is the case is not evidence either way.

Well then there is no evidence for Dark Matter because the gravity we observe could be explained by irreducibly warped space. All we got to do is posit it.

I still believe there is evidence for Dark Matter even though some other explanation can be imagined.

Matter which does not seem to interact with light seems to be the most plausible explanation for the observed gravity. A non local causal agent seems to be the most plausible explanation for the observed effects that cannot have local causes.
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