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19-05-2014, 11:05 AM
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 11:03 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 10:13 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  This thread is stupid. Let's all go swimming.

It's too cold for swimming where I live Sad

I'm lucky , I live near a beach.
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19-05-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 10:25 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

And if you have access to the forum, you have access to Google as well as I do.
Good luck.

I don't think you noticed, but a part of that article supports my argument.
Quote:In western Classical Antiquity, theism was the fundamental belief that supported the divine right of the state (Polis, later the Roman Empire). Historically, any person who did not believe in any deity supported by the state was fair game to accusations of atheism, a capital crime. For political reasons, Socrates in Athens (399 BCE) was accused of being 'atheos' ("refusing to acknowledge the gods recognized by the state"). Despite the charges, he claimed inspiration from a divine voice (Daimon). Christians in Rome were also considered subversive to the state religion and persecuted as atheists.[7] Thus, charges of atheism, meaning the subversion of religion, were often used similarly to charges of heresy and impiety – as a political tool to eliminate enemies.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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19-05-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 10:19 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I am just asking a question. Trying to learn what you guys think about definitions of words.

So far I have been given: "common usage" and "dictionary".

What qualifies as "common usage"?

How does one determine what "common" is?

What is common knowledge? Is there a word for asking a question you already know the answer to?

Atheist is just a word. If you were speaking to someone who doesn't understand English they would not know what atheist even means. I don't understand why the actual word is so important.

A person who lacks belief in the existence of gods cannot believe in a god, because (regardless of what word you use as a label for the definition) that is a contradiction.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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19-05-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 07:36 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Can an atheist believe in God and this not be a contradiction?

With this question you are accepting your ignorance and misunderstanding about atheism. That's a start.Thumbsup
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19-05-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: Question
Ok, I find it hard to believe that you actually are interested in this question to the degree that you're giving the impression. But here we go, I'll indulge you:


(19-05-2014 07:57 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Now, who or what determines what the word atheism means?

Ultimately, anyone. There is no final arbiter assigning definitions to strings. (Unless you claim there is, which I highly doubt.)


As a matter of convenience, common usage (as already said) tells us what definition(s) strings bear most frequently. At this point it turns into an engineering problem of determining these frequencies and deciding at which (ultimately arbitrary) threshold a particular definition should be considered normative, i.e. acceptable. For the exact details of how this problem is being solved, check your local dictionary compilers.


In addition to the above I find that, when it comes to labels that someone might wish to adopt (e.g. 'atheist'), those people who self-identify themselves with some label get the "privilege" of additional weight on determining what the label should stand for. Thus, it is not, for the most part, my concern to determine who is a Christian, but rather the concern of those who call themselves Christians.


But again, to stress my point, definitions are up for grabs, all of them. Trainwreck is allowed to call atheism a political doctrine all day long (and nights probably too). If you wish to label, as of today, muslims as jews, jews as christians, and christians as muslims, feel free to! You can do it, you are entitled to it, but it will most likely only lead to confusion since it is against common usage, and that is what people expect others to adhere to. If that is not the case, they expect others to clarify their terms, until they are based on something that both agree on.


I seriously doubt this is anything new to you, let alone eye-opening, but you're welcome!

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19-05-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Question
Jeremy's question: Is False equal to True?

Answer: No.

This is literally what Jeremy has asked us. No amount of discussion about definitions and common usage will get around this.
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19-05-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: Question
Jeremy is asking us a very stupid question even by theist standards.
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19-05-2014, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2014 11:41 AM by John.)
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 11:12 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Jeremy's question: Is False equal to True?

Answer: No.

This is literally what Jeremy has asked us. No amount of discussion about definitions and common usage will get around this.

I'm not sure that's the case. (It might be, I really don't know.)

As for the definitions, pardon my ignorance but I'm under the impression that at least in antiquity the label 'atheist' had a more colorful meaning, the common notion that Roman pagans called Christians 'atheists' for not believing in the gods of the pantheon, for instance. I haven't checked the veracity of this, but you hear it every now end then so I'm ready to consider it plausible without further ado. If the label at one time had currency in such a form, I see no reason why the OP question shouldn't be legit.

And even if that were not the case, our friend Jeremy is notoriously cautious in giving anything away, so again, I don't pretend for a moment to know what strings he's about to pull when he shows up with his one-liners.

My 0.02

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19-05-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: Question
(19-05-2014 07:36 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Can an atheist believe in God and this not be a contradiction?

[Image: tumblr_m81pxtn8q81r2hog5o1_400.gif]

That could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You'd be less stupid to ask if a mountain is the same as an Albanian traffic warden or if a DVD of Gravity is the same as a telephone directory. At least these aren't polar opposites.
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19-05-2014, 11:47 AM
RE: Question
Poor Jeremy!NoNo
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