Question #5

[Irishdize]

Because I realize now that there are people here who are not JUST atheists, there are humanists, Christians, Satanists and more, I am going to change the questions around from what the book says from now on, I hate the way the questions are worded in the first place!
So....whatever your position may be, have you ever had moments of doubt and what helped you overcome them?
I personally have not had any doubts but I suppose if I did, I would just remind myself of who I am and how much of a threat I can be. It keeps me grounded and secure.
You?

[Free Thought]

Our position on what? Our religious position? Philosophical, Epistemological, sexual? Also, what book are you referring too?

Jokes aside, I assume you mean our religious positions, no? If so I will gladly edit this post to include an answer.

[morondog]

(08-12-2012 05:47 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  I would just remind myself of who I am and how much of a threat I can be. It keeps me grounded and secure.
You?

Well I know I'm not the craziest inmate anyway...

Yeah. I was atheist from age ~ 14 probably. When I went to uni, had this little interlude where I kinda thought 'I wonder if it really is bullshit', so I tried the whole 'force yourself to believe' schtick. Sadly couldn't fake it in the end (and there were some hot babes in that outfit, goddammit). Never really had doubts per se though, always have felt like I know my own mind, it's just figuring out wtf is going on that sometimes has me flummoxed.

[amyb]

I had some doubts about my sexuality once. I made out with a girl and that helped me overcome these doubts.

Oh, you mean religious, I guess. Doubts about my non-religion? Not that I can recall, since my stance on these things is based on a lack of evidence of the supernatural. If I saw some credible evidence of the supernatural, I suppose I might start doubting it, but that seems unlikely.

[bemore]

(08-12-2012 05:47 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  have you ever had moments of doubt and what helped you overcome them?

Reflecting on religious history, how many gods have ever been worshipped through humankinds history etc etc
Reflecting on how religion socially conditions people and that the current systems in place are nothing but jazzed up versions of the old systems.

If I ever catch myself thinking to an outside force to guidance (normally under major stressfull conditions) I normally just ground myself and direct it inwards.

[Ghost]

Hey, Irish.

No, I don't think that I doubt. I'm quite comfortable being an Agnostic. Nothing's been proven. That's just a fact. Reserving my judgment seems like the only reasonable thing for me to do. Just like when a friend is pregnant. It's unreasonable for me to believe it's one sex or the other.

That being said, I do at times get swept up in what ifs. What if there is no God, no afterlife, only oblivion? What does that mean? What if there is a God, and an afterlife? What if I should be worshiping him? What if he doesn't really mind? What does that mean? And then there's secular questions. My molecules will go on. Is it possible that they will find their way into another organism and I'll perceive existence once again? Have I had past lives that I have no memory of? Does the irreducible me simply end, or is there some form of reincarnation? Is there another form of existence, another version of consciousness? I don't fear the past prior to my existence, will it be so bad to return to that? Or is Kubrick right when he says, "The dead know only one thing. It is better to be alive." What does that mean? And then there's the doozies. What the hell is all this existence stuff about anyway? Why am I here, why is any of this here? What does it all mean? Just like with a pregnancy, it's sometimes fun, sometimes even profoundly moving, to imagine one scenario or the other, but at the end of the day, I'm left alone with reason. I have to accept that I just don't know. Whether that's good or bad is irrelevant. It is. I simply have accept any anxiety that that leaves me with. But I can console myself with the fact that I'm not alone in my questioning.

Quote:To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action.

So yeah, no doubts, just flights of fancy

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

[Logisch]

When I first was coming to accept the fact that I was an atheist, I did from time to time have moments where I'd have indoctrination come back and momentarily bite me in the ass. I eventually realized it was largely fear. "What if I'm wrong? What if the bible is right? Oh man I'm betraying god!" and then after a few moments of rational thought and considering things I went... "nah, it's bullshit."

I very much look at it now as brainwashing, because that shit scars you.

[Irishdize]

(08-12-2012 05:53 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Our position on what? Our religious position? Philosophical, Epistemological, sexual? Also, what book are you referring too?

Jokes aside, I assume you mean our religious positions, no? If so I will gladly edit this post to include an answer.

Gee ya think?

Since the last 4 questions have all been about religion, I would assume that was what this one was about.
The book is the book of questions that I explained I read in the first question, I read questions out loud once in the morning to delve into all day long, I am a serious self improvement junkie, very spiritual and enjoy introspection so for me this is a very healthy way to get to the bottom of what I really feel and think, sometimes I will answer the question right away and later that night answer it a different way because I gave it much more serious thought, I have found that its a great way to get to know myself better and also men I used to date, friends I wanted to get to know and I figured Id use it here to get to know people here (Those that are left from the Atheist Vs Satanic war) and maybe it will turn into a long debate or discussion, who knows!

[Gaest]

(08-12-2012 05:47 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  Because I realize now that there are people here who are not JUST atheists, there are humanists, Christians, Satanists and more, I am going to change the questions around from what the book says from now on, I hate the way the questions are worded in the first place!
So....whatever your position may be, have you ever had moments of doubt and what helped you overcome them?
I personally have not had any doubts but I suppose if I did, I would just remind myself of who I am and how much of a threat I can be. It keeps me grounded and secure.
You?

Sometimes I have doubts yes. Whenever I have I just compare the pros and cons og my religion, assuming that gods and afterlife do not exist:

Pros:

-A large part of my good friends I have met, and are meting regularly, through my religion (study groups, rituals so on and so forth).
-I´m generally interested in the subjects surrounding my religion and being part of the religious groups and milieu are major drives to get me reading.
-The philosophy and traditions fit me and there are no theological or social problems connected with me having doubts or not believing - usually it just results in a few sleepless nights and a lot of speculation (which can be healthy).
-Afterlife or the lack thereof is not really a problem. I adhere to the idea that ones renown and the consequences of ones actions in life are what is important after death, and the only things which for certain lives on besides your children.
-Parties and merry making.

Cons:

-I spend some amount of time and money on rituals. It is nothing compared to smoking or hunting though.


So I just keep going and enjoy the spiritual experiences when they come

[Janus]

(08-12-2012 02:55 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  [...] I am a serious self improvement junkie, very spiritual and enjoy introspection [...]

I think you walked into the wrong place. No spirits here.
Try the Salvation Army next door, or the Karma Temple around the corner.