Question About Evolution
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22-01-2011, 12:18 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
I've personally always wondered about why the snake lost its limbs. I can think only about the possibilities of being able to squeeze into tinier nooks, but it seems like just getting smaller would be a more likely route if that were the case.

Of course, this is coming from the person that still doesn't entirely understand how they move forward. xD

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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22-01-2011, 12:28 AM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2011 12:32 AM by No J..)
RE: Question About Evolution
http://wps.prenhall.com/esm_freeman_evol...index.html

http://www.kidzone.ws/lw/snakes/facts04.htm

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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22-01-2011, 05:34 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
This is a very well made video that explains what evolution is and how it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

If anybody really wants to dig deeper into the subject then Jerry A Coyne's book "Why Evolution is True" is an excellent book to gain further knowledge on. My personal favourite would be "The Greatest Show on Earth" by the famous Richard Dawkins, it is beautifully written and well presented.

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22-01-2011, 08:36 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
(22-01-2011 12:18 AM)LeviTimes Wrote:  I've personally always wondered about why the snake lost its limbs. I can think only about the possibilities of being able to squeeze into tinier nooks, but it seems like just getting smaller would be a more likely route if that were the case.

Of course, this is coming from the person that still doesn't entirely understand how they move forward. xD

It's interesting, boas and pythons do have extremely small, visage legs.
[Image: spurs1.jpg]
They also have two lungs, most snakes only have one. As to why they lost their legs, from my various online research, I'd found three hypothesis.
1. They lost their legs on land because they proved to be hindering their ability to burrow.

2. They lost them at sea. I've never got a good explanation about why though, sadly. But apparently some fossils have been found supporting this idea. Maybe they didn't get the mutation needed to turn into fins, or maybe fin didn't help the snake's body swim too well.

3. Genesis 3:14, god dun did it.

Sadly I've never been able to get a good answer to that because creationists have mucked up the water. Typically I only get one of two answer; God dun did it, or the legs proved to be evolutionary unfavorable, allowing those with smaller legs to live and reproduce better(basic run-down of evolution).

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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22-01-2011, 09:15 PM
RE: Question About Evolution
Ahhh, thanks guys!

I guessed correctly about how snakes moved (the only one that I knew fully because of education was the sidewinder, way to go Kentucky education Tongue), but it's still pretty amazing.

I guess they'll come across the "why"s soon enough. Losing the legs at sea seems to make sense to me, thinking of water moccasins and such.

And of course Her Worshipfulness graced the snake its shape by her noodly appendage. I didn't think I needed to say that!
xD

EDIT: The snake is quite noodle-shaped... it must be a sacred animal.

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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22-01-2011, 09:40 PM
RE: Question About Evolution
Interesting snake facts from your resident python breeder:

1. A fairly new theory that is, as of yet, somewhat in it's infancy, is that among other factors, snakes may have lost their legs for heat absorbtion. It is true that snakes bask i the sun to collect body heat, but they also gain a large percentage of heat from their belly, by lying on warm surfaces. This is most evident with animals such as ball pythons. They gather virtually all of their warmth from "belly heat" They spend most of their lives in underground burrows, prefering abandoned termite mounds above all others. The heat generated by the composting materials in the abandoned mounds provides plenty of heat for these reclusive snakes.

2. The vestigal legs of most pythons and boas, as well as some colubrids, still serve a purpose. The males use their "spurs" to stimulate the female during breeding by rubbing them against the females sides. This encourages her to raise her body and allow the male to slip his tail beneath her. (My ball pythons are breeding now, and it's fascinating to watch this gentle courtship)

3. The lungs of a snake work opposite to ours. We flex our diaphragm to inhale air, while a snake flexes to expel it. (Our lungs at rest are empty, while a snakes are full)

4. A snakes primary sense is one that we lack completely. They sense heat through heat pits along the sides of the face, and find their prey this way. Some snakes are far more dependant on this sense than others, but all have the ability to sense heat at a distance.

Sorry, as soon as I saw the pic of the snakes vent, I got all happy cuz I'm a snake nerd! (The pic is a Ball Pyhton BTW)

Just visiting.

-SR
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22-01-2011, 09:53 PM
RE: Question About Evolution
For the record, one of the shared links mentions that snakes are a type of lizard. This is incorrect. Snakes and lizards fall under the order squamata, but are not the same. They are differentiated primarily by the presence of eyelids and ear openings (both present in lizards, but not in snakes) There are a few lizards that lack legs, but are not snakes since they still have these features.

Just visiting.

-SR
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23-01-2011, 12:05 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
Ahh, that makes a lot of sense! Thank you, resident snake expert! Big Grin

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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23-01-2011, 01:18 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
(22-01-2011 09:15 PM)LeviTimes Wrote:  I guess they'll come across the "why"s soon enough. Losing the legs at sea seems to make sense to me, thinking of water moccasins and such.

A water moccasin is not a sea snake, it is a pit viper related to rattle snakes. Sea snakes live almost totally in water, usually oceans and seas.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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23-01-2011, 05:59 AM
RE: Question About Evolution
(23-01-2011 01:18 AM)No J. Wrote:  
(22-01-2011 09:15 PM)LeviTimes Wrote:  I guess they'll come across the "why"s soon enough. Losing the legs at sea seems to make sense to me, thinking of water moccasins and such.

A water moccasin is not a sea snake, it is a pit viper related to rattle snakes. Sea snakes live almost totally in water, usually oceans and seas.

Oh, right, yeah, I didn't mean to imply the water moccasin was a sea snake. Tongue I was just saying it seemed like a reasonable link, and one I could relate to, being one of the only snakes I've seen in the wild in person. I'm pretty sure that water moccasins are only found near lakes and creeks.

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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