Question about Near Death Experiences
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08-02-2017, 11:55 PM
Question about Near Death Experiences
Hi everyone. I am an active member of a Lutheran Church in Poland. I attend every week and I help out there. Although I pretty much accept religion, I sometimes question things (who doesn't). A minister at my church constantly preaches about Near Death Experiences, and how they are a preview of afterlife. I actually called him up on his claim, telling him that although I believe in God and an afterlife, I do not simply believe that NDEs have anything to do with an afterlife. I told him about the recent Sam Parnia study which failed, and I told him that there was no reason to think that they are anything else than the brain acting up when it is not functioning at a normal capacity. A few of the church members then talked about how they are real, and they sent me a variety of links to try to prove it.
Long story short, I read quite a few (maybe 50 experiences).
Most of them seemed like they could be the product of the brain. However there were about 10-20 where the person claimed that in their experience, that Jesus told them that for example, their father would leave their mother and sure enough, it did happen. In one Jesus told a man he would have a son in a few years. Three years to the day of the experience, he had a son born. Another one a girl met her supposed uncle, who she apparently never heard of, and gave her facts about himself and her aunt who she later verified as true. Many of them have some ESP content in there, where the person develops psychic ability or something. There is a really graphic one where a guy goes to hell and hears God say "I have brought you to hell only so you can tell people it is real. Hell is a real place". My question I guess is, although most of these experiences are not all necessarily true, you will get a few that sound so amazing, or hard to dismiss as simple randomness or luck. Same with some Out of Body experiences, where patients report going to other rooms and other cities, verifying things that actually occurred.
Here is the most compelling one in my opinion:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/wi.../lynn.html

So, what would you atheists say about some of these amazing and difficult to explain NDEs? Some of them are just too difficult to explain. Some of them seem TOO graphic or coincidental for a brain that is dying to be able to come up with something like that. The psychic abilities and ESP are just out of this world.
the near-death.com website has so many of them and I doubt they can all be made up.
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09-02-2017, 02:14 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2017 02:29 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
You convinced me. Hereby I renounce my godless ways. To be honest I looked for excuse to do so for a long time - eating children is overrated and "Dawkins dammit" doesn't have good ring to it. But how do you know that it is that Jewish carpenter who is intervening in such way and not some trickster god like Loki?

Edit: Maybe you should check for similar threads first? It's topic that appears here far from infrequently.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-02-2017, 04:47 AM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
Do more research. You seem to be on the right track, at least initially. Take a look at skeptical and scientific organizations that have looked into the claims, and you'll find that many of the testimonials are crafted by charlatans, or fail in tests put to them by more-objective studies. Every week, we get someone in here to tell us about the NDE stories, and with all due respect, it's getting a little bit exhausting to have to point it out to them. So either take Szuchow's advice and look for the myriad other threads we've had on it, or look for more objective sources of information on the claims you're supposedly investigating.

Here's a hint: if the website is called anything even remotely similar to "NDEs Are Real.com", it's probably not good information.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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09-02-2017, 04:59 AM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
Smells like bullshit to me.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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09-02-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  Hi everyone.

Howdy! Welcome to the forums.

(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  Long story short, I read quite a few (maybe 50 experiences).

Did you look at any sites other than those ones? Because it's likely that those links are only part of the story. Did any of the links debunk or disprove NDE's? I'd guess not.

Do some google searches for things like "NDE's debunked" or "NDE's disproven". You also want to check out the sites you go to. Google the site and see if the organization has a good reputation.

It is also interesting to note that people experience the "afterlife" of the religion they are familiar with. Christians don't have Muslim or Hindu "afterlife" experiences. That in itself is a red flag.

The website you linked to is a religious/spiritual based site. It has links to sites involving religion, spirituality, mediums, transpersonal consciousness, reincarnation, out-of-body experiences and the paranormal in general.

This is not a science oriented website.

(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  So, what would you atheists say about some of these amazing and difficult to explain NDEs?

NDE's have been explained by science. They are a product of brain chemistry associated with injury/illness/trauma. NDE's have been induced in laboratory experiments. Studies have been able to replicate NDE's in rats.

(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  The psychic abilities and ESP are just out of this world.

When you are examining one unproven phenomena (NDE's), stacking another unproven phenomena (psychic ability) onto the first does not add support. It undermines it.

So, I have a question for you:

If you are interested in the truth of NDE's, from a scientific or rational viewpoint, why ask us? Why ask a bunch of random atheists? Wouldn't you be better served by asking on a medical or scientific forum?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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09-02-2017, 06:46 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2017 06:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  So, what would you atheists say about some of these amazing and difficult to explain NDEs? Some of them are just too difficult to explain. Some of them seem TOO graphic or coincidental for a brain that is dying to be able to come up with something like that. The psychic abilities and ESP are just out of this world.
the near-death.com website has so many of them and I doubt they can all be made up.

They are not at all difficult to explain. Brains de-saturating of oxygen is all they are. No one ever sees anything except shit they already know about.
Rats have NDEs. Are they going to rat-Jesus ?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...al-or-Fake

Why can't you people do the simplest search, and why is your impotent god so weak and powerless he lets innocent babies die and starve, but can do NDEs ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-02-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  He/she said something about near death experiences.

Italics mine.

Okay. Well you are reading the remarks of a cancer patient who has died. Not brain dead, but as dead as I'd like. Smile

I recall nothing. No Jesus, no Satan, nothing.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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09-02-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
From fat bald hobbit:
NDE's have been explained by science. They are a product of brain chemistry associated with injury/illness/trauma. NDE's have been induced in laboratory experiments. Studies have been able to replicate NDE's in rats.


reply:
One question I have: How does the rat experiment demonstrate anything about NDEs? How do we know what the rats experienced?
http://skeptiko.com/223-dumbest-explanat...xperience/

below is a link which somewhat debunks that whole claim. I'm not saying rats don't have NDEs, but it isn't as though we can ask them what they saw, assuming they saw anything at all.
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09-02-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
(08-02-2017 11:55 PM)Mirek-Polska Wrote:  So, what would you atheists say about some of these amazing and difficult to explain NDEs?

Never had Special K or Angel Dust have you? It's much easier to explain once you've seen the lizard king you can be everything.

#sigh
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09-02-2017, 04:54 PM
RE: Question about Near Death Experiences
"Near death" is not "death." Big difference.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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