Question about flood
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25-03-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: Question about flood
(25-03-2015 12:31 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  ... Cool to see you on here Airportkid ...

Likewise, Daniel. I recognized you instantly by your avatar title "Cat Lovers Against the Bomb" and I gave a cheer. The discourse meter on here just went up a few ticks - and it's pretty high already. Welcome! Have you bested the free dive depth/time I last saw from you several years ago?
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26-03-2015, 05:54 AM
RE: Question about flood
(24-03-2015 11:57 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  This isn't to say the endless attempts aren't futile. Q and COTW are only 2 of a much larger audience. I would just make it more plain that it's the larger audience being addressed, and if it can be done in such a manner that Q and COTW are not even acknowledged or responded to directly, so much the better. Direct discussion with that duo is the same as trying to lift a boat anchor out of the mud by speaking to it.

Heck, when I was in college, I was not open to adjusting my beliefs, and I knew it. I admitted to myself that I wouldn't change my mind before I'd heard anything anyone had to say, and I knew that it wasn't a stance of intellectual honesty.

...and I got better. It took about five years to actually allow myself to question it, and probably another two or three before I stopped believing and got comfortable with it, but I did. And seven or eight years prior, I refused to consider any dissenting point of view.

Also, note that it wasn't seven or eight years of me being presented with these non-Christian views, but more like eight months, off and on during that time. That's all it took to plant the seed, which took time to grow. If I had been braver back then, I would have been on similar sites saying similar things to what they say now.
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26-03-2015, 06:25 AM
RE: Question about flood
(25-03-2015 01:01 PM)Rik Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 12:31 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  Just a preference not to watch folks using their stomach for graveyards.

No judgement? The above gives lie to that.

I think you're being overly sensitive. I was just replying to a Bible-thumper who wanted me to sit at a table with him while he ate meat, which I happen to find really disgusting. I also happen to find it self-serving in the extreme that theists justify killing animals in cold blood (an inefficient, nutritionally unnecessary, and environmentally disastrous way of producing food) by claiming that their magic man in the sky created animals so that we could eat them.

BTW, I have actually been told that I will go to hell for being a vegetarian. The argument was that God made animals so that we could eat them and by not doing so I was refusing God's gift and would be punished with eternal torment for that.

There are societies where survival requires eating meat. The U.S. is not one of those. Some non-industrial cultures, or the peoples of the far north, for example, need to kill and eat animals to survive. But in an industrial nation, eating meat is not only unnecessary, but the quantity and the kind of meat (high in fat) eaten here is unhealthy. If you're going to kill a sentient being that has done you no harm and is no threat to you and is not threatening your livelihood, just so that you can make yourself a little less healthy by eating it for pleasure, you shouldn't be overly sensitive to a little ribbing about it.

It was actually a meat-eater who first suggested the graveyard analogy to me.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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26-03-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: Question about flood
(25-03-2015 01:02 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 12:31 PM)daniel1948 Wrote:  ... Cool to see you on here Airportkid ...

Likewise, Daniel. I recognized you instantly by your avatar title "Cat Lovers Against the Bomb" and I gave a cheer. The discourse meter on here just went up a few ticks - and it's pretty high already. Welcome! Have you bested the free dive depth/time I last saw from you several years ago?

Well, thanks for the good words. And no, my freedive time and depth have not improved. Having an instructor or properly-trained safety divers present really boosts one's confidence, and freediving is mostly mental. I would not even attempt to improve my personal best except in a class or an organized competition, and I have not been to one since then. In fact, the first freediving I've done since we last encountered each other on the net was just this past December, after 3 years of no diving at all, and I was totally out of shape for it. I had great fun, but once I realized how out of shape I was, I didn't even try to go deep or stay down long. I saw a lot of turtles, though.

"El mar se mide por olas,
el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
-- Jaime Sabines
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26-03-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: Question about flood
(25-03-2015 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every animal that has ever lived is a transitional form.

That is like a Christian telling an atheist "every living human is made in the image of God". Yeah, that is the theory. I want evidence for the theory.

(25-03-2015 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Occam's razor applies since the blind, algorithmic process of evolution is far simpler than an intelligent designer.

Based on??
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26-03-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Question about flood
(26-03-2015 08:31 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every animal that has ever lived is a transitional form.

That is like a Christian telling an atheist "every living human is made in the image of God". Yeah, that is the theory. I want evidence for the theory.

(25-03-2015 10:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Occam's razor applies since the blind, algorithmic process of evolution is far simpler than an intelligent designer.

Based on??

"Yeah, that is the theory. I want evidence for the theory. "

Fossils. Genetics.

Here is a good textbook for evolution
http://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Analy...y+analysis

Here is one for fossils
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-What-Fos...s=prothero

But maybe start with some more basic geology
http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Geology...s=wicander

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-03-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Question about flood
Or you could opt to try and read into the journals first.

P^3 is fairly approachable
http://www.journals.elsevier.com/palaeog...eoecology/

You could also try Science
http://www.sciencemag.org/journals

Or Nature
http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-03-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: Question about flood
If you are feeling adventurous and want to spend a few hours looking at the billions of fossils and millions of collections, you could start with the paleobiology database
https://paleobiodb.org/navigator/

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-03-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: Question about flood
You could get into the technical literature with the Treatise if you like too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_on...leontology

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-03-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Question about flood
Or start with some of the popular literature, like Dawkins' "The Greatest Show on Earth"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Show-...1416594795

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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