Question about flood
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15-03-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: Question about flood
(15-03-2015 07:58 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well, wouldn't true free will give rise to the option of rebellion?? If free will was the agenda, then it is not possible to MAKE someone FREELY choose to do something.

Though, if the deity has the three 'Os' then there seems to be small wiggle room for any sort of 'Free will'. The whole "Knowing everything that's going to happen." bit. Consider

(15-03-2015 07:58 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Second, as far as omniscience is concerned, this is a difficult concept to grasp and I admit that I haven't found a satisfactory answer yet.

Big Grin Hope you reach a conclusion/answer.

(15-03-2015 07:58 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  However, it is my personal belief that the evidence for theism is very obvious

Cool! Might you be able to point some of it out? Thumbsup

(15-03-2015 07:58 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  .... and if you choose to deliberately deny the obvious, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

This seems rather inflammatory a response.... Consider

The old "God has closed your mind so that you can't understand god." claim. Seems rather circular and twisted etc.

(15-03-2015 07:58 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Without objective moral value, your opinions of the benevolence of God becomes rather...subjective.

Folks have already pointed out that there's really no 'Objective morality. Though, if there were an objective deity then surely everything that followed would be... objective? Consider

Much cheers to all.
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15-03-2015, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2015 11:29 PM by Call_of_the_Wild.)
RE: Question about flood
(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Though, if the deity has the three 'Os'

Make that the four 'O's...don't short change the Almighty Cool

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  then there seems to be small wiggle room for any sort of 'Free will'. The whole "Knowing everything that's going to happen." bit. Consider

I don't know, man....hell, I get the point regarding the critique, but it seems to me that if one admits that they are freely making the choice to not believe in God, then one is admitting that they have free will...and this is regardless of God's foreknowledge or middle knowledge.

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Big Grin Hope you reach a conclusion/answer.

I will, quicker than you can say archeopteryx Laugh out load

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Cool! Might you be able to point some of it out? Thumbsup

Well, you know...things like the kalam, ontological, consciousness, morality, origin of life, origin of the universe, impossibility of evolution...you now, things like that.

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  This seems rather inflammatory a response.... Consider

Well... Undecided

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  The old "God has closed your mind so that you can't understand god." claim. Seems rather circular and twisted etc.

I agree, it does seem rather circular and twisted..no wonder I've never held such a viewpoint.

(15-03-2015 12:02 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Folks have already pointed out that there's really no 'Objective morality. Though, if there were an objective deity then surely everything that followed would be... objective? Consider

And as I've pointed out...if you go to a foreign land with your daughter, and some of the natives rape your daughter, and rape is permitted in this particular land, then actually, the natives aren't doing anything wrong...no matter how red your face gets or how much smoke comes out of your ears because of the circumstances. So if you agree to this, then no, there is no objective morality.
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16-03-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: Question about flood
(15-03-2015 08:00 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 05:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Wait, you mean to tell me that your god lacks the power to create a system where judgement was not even needed?

In heaven, a judgement system is not needed...so there ya go.

(15-03-2015 05:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Is your god not powerful enough to create a system with meaningful choice, but without evil in need of judgement?

Well, so much for omnipotence! Weeping

It is called HEAVEN Laugh out load


And yet, even in a universe purpose built for human beings (crafted in his own image no less), the vast majority of them will never get there. Do you know what that means? You god is incredibly callous and capricious, or he sucks at developing universes.

Also, let's not forget that your morality system is incredibly easy to game, does nothing to prevent evil, and in fact it can be argued that it both allows and encourages it. So, you know, there is that.

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16-03-2015, 07:15 AM
RE: Question about flood
(15-03-2015 08:00 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 05:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Wait, you mean to tell me that your god lacks the power to create a system where judgement was not even needed?

In heaven, a judgement system is not needed...so there ya go.

(15-03-2015 05:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Is your god not powerful enough to create a system with meaningful choice, but without evil in need of judgement?

Well, so much for omnipotence! Weeping

It is called HEAVEN Laugh out load

So, you're saying free will and judgment aren't necessary? Why does YHWH bother with them, then?
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16-03-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: Question about flood
(13-03-2015 07:36 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  Ask him/her if a glass of water pours on a flat table, is does it stay two inches deep in one part of the table and 1/8 of an inch in another part of the table?

Don't do that he will just say well if the table has a crack it will !
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16-03-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Question about flood
(16-03-2015 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 08:00 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  In heaven, a judgement system is not needed...so there ya go.


It is called HEAVEN Laugh out load

So, you're saying free will and judgment aren't necessary? Why does YHWH bother with them, then?

i just wanted to say that if a judgement system was in place there whould have been no satan right ? so wth is he talking about.
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16-03-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: Question about flood
(16-03-2015 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, you're saying free will and judgment aren't necessary? Why does YHWH bother with them, then?

The free will is because God wants us to love him because we want to, not because he programmed us to.

The judgement is like our "graduation" day. If you pass, you graduate to bigger and better things. If you fail, you are left behind.
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16-03-2015, 10:19 AM
RE: Question about flood
(16-03-2015 10:12 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 07:15 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, you're saying free will and judgment aren't necessary? Why does YHWH bother with them, then?

The free will is because God wants us to love him because we want to, not because he programmed us to.

The judgement is like our "graduation" day. If you pass, you graduate to bigger and better things. If you fail, you are left behind.

What is your evidence for that?

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16-03-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Question about flood
(16-03-2015 01:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And yet, even in a universe purpose built for human beings (crafted in his own image no less), the vast majority of them will never get there.

Hey, Navy Seals training...the vast majority of the trainee's won't become Seals, that doesn't mean that the program isn't needed nor does it take away from those that DO make it all the way through.

(16-03-2015 01:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Do you know what that means? You god is incredibly callous and capricious, or he sucks at developing universes.

Opinions are like assholes, we all have one, and they all STINK.

(16-03-2015 01:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also, let's not forget that your morality system is incredibly easy to game, does nothing to prevent evil, and in fact it can be argued that it both allows and encourages it. So, you know, there is that.

Huh
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16-03-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: Question about flood
(16-03-2015 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  What is your evidence for that?

I believe there is good historical evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus...which points in the direction of Christianity, which has a doctrine of "final judgement".
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