Question about flood
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28-03-2015, 11:35 AM
RE: Question about flood
(28-03-2015 11:18 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I am saying if God doesn't exist, then evolution is not a brute fact like most of you would like it to be. You can't logically just completely bypass abiogenesis and jump right to evolution, when evolution depends on abiogenesis. That is the cart before the horse fallacy. If life CAN'T come from nonlife, then evolution without God would be impossible. That is the point, can life come from nonlife, or can't it? The question remains open and until science can put a lid on it, then it can't be a brute fact, without God.

No. The bolded part doesn't follow. How life arose is irrelevant. Evolution is ONLY about the diversification of life.

(28-03-2015 11:18 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  And if that is the case, then atheism is still defeated, so see ya, have a nice day.

lol what? That was a "IF", a big IF in fact.

(28-03-2015 11:18 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So, nonliving material, that cant think, see, hear...suddenly coming to life and beginning to think, see, and hear...that isn't magical??? What the hell is it then? You can't even call it science yet.

Who says that? Go to Wikipedia, search Abiogenesis and quote me where it says what you said above.

That's a very bad misrepresentation of Abiogenesis. That's not what it says, at all.

(28-03-2015 11:18 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Sounds like microevolution to me. No denying that this occurs...I am talking about the whole reptile to bird thing.

There is only Evolution, what changes is TIME. Short time, fewer changes. Longer time, more changes.

If you want to see Reptile to bird, check the link to Aron Ra's video I posted on two separate threads in response to you. He explains it very well.

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28-03-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Question about flood
(27-03-2015 04:32 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I will remain stupid and continue to believe in Christianity and be granted eternity life with the Almighty. You can remain smart and continue to believe in "voodoo" science called evolution without God, and we will let the chips fall where they may.

あなたはとてもばかです。do you know what evolution is?

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28-03-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Question about flood
(28-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Conflating topics? What? Dude, it is called "starting from step 1, and THEN moving to step 2". You want to just skip over step 1 and start from step 2.

Sorry, Charlie, no easy stuff, here. If you can't scientifically prove how life could have arisen from nonliving material, then the theory of evolution (without God) is not a fact.

Okay, here seems like a good place to start, because you're wrong in three different ways. The first is that abiogenesis is not step 1 of evolution, it is its own process; evolution, being that it literally only describes things that happen to living beings, finds its step 1 with living beings. The origin of life is a necessary precondition for evolution, but it isn't connected with it; by your logic, the formation of the Earth is step 1 of aviation. Are you seriously trying to tell us that the formation of planets is a part of any subject that requires a planet to take place on? That planetary formation is integral to, say, cake baking?

Secondly, there could be a god that created life in its initial state, which then proceeded to evolve; plenty of theists believe exactly that so let's not pretend strict literal creationism is the only game in town, let alone one that needs to be privileged like you seem to want it to be.

Thirdly, say we don't know how life began: does that erase all the observations of evolution we've already made in the real world? The times we've literally seen it happen? The fact that every single observation of biology we've ever made has fit perfectly within the evolutionary model? No, no it does not. So attempting to prove evolution false by appealing to ignorance is, well, an argument from ignorance. Poking a hole in your competition doesn't prove you correct, even if it was a legitimate hole... which it isn't.

Quote:It just could be the case that abiogenesis is FALSE. That could be the case...so, if evolution IS true, then God is the one behind the wheel making it happened, or evolution never happened in the first place and God did everything without evolution....but either way, God is in the picture whether you like it or not Big Grin

I feel like you've got kind of a ways to go before you can assert that god and completely natural abiogenesis are the only two possibilities. How did you eliminate all other possibilities and limit it down to just those two options?

Quote:If it is a fact that fossil fuels have something to do with why the tread on the tires wears down, then you could trace everything back to the fossil fuels, couldn't you??

You could trace it back, but fossil fuels are completely irrelevant to why the tires are wearing down, in the same way as abiogenesis is irrelevant to how we know evolution is happening.

Quote:So you are comparing something we KNOW to be true, with something we DON'T know to be true and trying to draw a parallel.

Again, sorry charlie, aint happening..not on my watch No

We know evolution is true; we have more evidence for it than we do for gravity. I've seen you mention microevolution in the past, but if your only rebuttal to the theory is making up new definitions and then insisting the real definition play by your rules, you don't really have much of a case.
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28-03-2015, 12:33 PM
RE: Question about flood
(28-03-2015 11:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 04:32 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I will remain stupid and continue to believe in Christianity and be granted eternity life with the Almighty. You can remain smart and continue to believe in "voodoo" science called evolution without God, and we will let the chips fall where they may.

あなたはとてもばかです。do you know what evolution is?

He only knows about strawman evolution. Drinking Beverage

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28-03-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: Question about flood
(27-03-2015 04:32 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  ... I will remain stupid and continue to believe in Christianity and be granted eternity life with the Almighty.

I'm not sure it's possible to be more craven, crass and selfish than this, although it it were COTW would also be its foremost exemplar. In one sentence he dismisses all accountability to humanity and seeks only to cover his own meager ass. It's the entire core of religious credo: saving your own meager ass. And then cap that attitude with a demand that others respect it. Disgusting.
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28-03-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Question about flood
(28-03-2015 12:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-03-2015 11:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  あなたはとてもばかです。do you know what evolution is?

He only knows about strawman evolution. Drinking Beverage

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28-03-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Question about flood
(27-03-2015 10:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You ever look at any of the texts I posted for you?

Of course he has not. He doesn't need to, because God told him everything he needs to know.

(27-03-2015 11:16 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(27-03-2015 06:41 AM)daniel1948 Wrote:  And since Call has mentioned birds, any basic text on evolution will show pictures of fossils that show a clear, step-by-step evolution from archaeopteryx (a small dinosaur) to modern birds. Birds are clearly not dinosaurs, but they evolved from them, just as reptiles are not fishes, but evolved from them, etc.

This is describing what the theory is...it isn't explaining HOW the changes occurred. This is the evolutionists version of "Naturedidit".

Dude, Darwin's entire book was a detailed explanation of how nature does it. Every basic biology textbook explains how nature does it.

Your statement shows that you have never even bothered to learn what it is that you claim not to believe. There can be nothing more close-minded than refusing to believe something before you even know what it is that you're refusing to believe.

Of course, that's a hallmark of evangelical Christianity: A belief that knowledge is sinful. After all, it was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Adam was prohibited from eating, so his sin was that he sought forbidden knowledge. The God of the Bible-thumpers demands ignorance of his worshippers, so C of the W is really just striving to be a good Christian when he refuses to find out what it is that he does not believe in.

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28-03-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: Question about flood
(28-03-2015 11:27 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(28-03-2015 10:54 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  And right there is the difference between how you "think" and rational minds. Conflation of topics is a sign of not understanding the concepts. Drinking Beverage

Conflating topics? What? Dude, it is called "starting from step 1, and THEN moving to step 2". You want to just skip over step 1 and start from step 2.

Sorry, Charlie, no easy stuff, here. If you can't scientifically prove how life could have arisen from nonliving material, then the theory of evolution (without God) is not a fact.

It just could be the case that abiogenesis is FALSE. That could be the case...so, if evolution IS true, then God is the one behind the wheel making it happened, or evolution never happened in the first place and God did everything without evolution....but either way, God is in the picture whether you like it or not Big Grin

(28-03-2015 10:54 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Example: it is like trying to explain why the tread on a tire wears down meanwhile you want to know how fossil fuels are extracted from the earth. Figuring out the former does not require knowing about the latter.

If it is a fact that fossil fuels have something to do with why the tread on the tires wears down, then you could trace everything back to the fossil fuels, couldn't you??

So you are comparing something we KNOW to be true, with something we DON'T know to be true and trying to draw a parallel.

Again, sorry charlie, aint happening..not on my watch No

   

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28-03-2015, 02:50 PM
RE: Question about flood
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28-03-2015, 03:05 PM
RE: Question about flood
Hey, serious question to my AF peeps: do we know if this Call of the Wild joker is His_Majesty, who we banned ages ago? Because the arguments are identical, right down to the wording.
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