Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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22-03-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Hi BB,
1. Where are you attending school again? I have two degrees already. Do you use STFU and other gracious terms in the classroom with your colleagues and professors?
2. I never stated there was an "exception for the Word of God". I said the verse you cited from Leviticus is only rendered soothsaying, which means "future telling" in ENGLISH by a few translators. Is there a contradiction that prophets are not to do witchcraft or necromancy? Of course not.
3. And if I allow for your translation based on your exceptional Hebrew knowledge since you clearly know better than the Rabbinical and secular scholars, please explain why 33% of the Bible or so is written in a future tense? You keep saying there's nothing in the Bible that is counter cultural for the Jews who wrote it. But prophecies include being surrounded and defeated by enemies (while Egypt, Syria, etc. remained), being a trouble or "issue" for every Kingdom (fulfilled), restored after many years to Israel while still in the midst of enemies but in a secularist Jewish state, having a Messiah who would come to the second temple, die and be revered worldwide as "Immanuel" and One with God, etc., etc., etc., etc.
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22-03-2013, 08:48 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
It is because primitives took soothsaying to be wondrous sign. Your primitive is showing. Tongue

And a prophet is a witch. If the Bible was being honest about it, it would say, thou shalt not practice witchcraft other than ours. But this "house of god" nonsense, these rites and rituals are all witchcraft; which in itself is mostly primitive psychology and partly primitive science.

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22-03-2013, 09:50 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Quote:It is because primitives took soothsaying to be wondrous sign. Your primitive is showing. [Image: tongue.gif]

And a prophet is a witch. If the Bible was being honest about it, it would say, thou shalt not practice witchcraft other than ours. But this "house of god" nonsense, these rites and rituals are all witchcraft; which in itself is mostly primitive psychology and partly primitive science.
Your last post is rambling and a bit hard to understand. But surely you haven't missed the exclusivity of Yahweh in both testaments? Withcraft involves invoking Baal, Ashtoreth, Ra, etc. In the ancient cultures, it would also include divination from entrails and bodily secretions, human sacrifice, ritual cutting and shavings, etc. again all verifiably condemned in the scriptures. A prophet is someone who has messages from Yahweh of 1) encouragement 2) reproof or correction 3) future events that come true solidifying the prophet of the past as a Word of the One, true, living God. This whole forum with few individual exceptions shows almost zero knowledge of Judaism. There's very little of the Catholic and Satanic ritual nonsense in Judaism (other than the blood sacrifices that prefigure Jesus Christ). Are you so ignorant of non skeptical culture that you would ever confuse a Rabbi or Cantor with what a witch or witch doctor is? Really?!
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22-03-2013, 10:04 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(22-03-2013 09:50 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:It is because primitives took soothsaying to be wondrous sign. Your primitive is showing. [Image: tongue.gif]

And a prophet is a witch. If the Bible was being honest about it, it would say, thou shalt not practice witchcraft other than ours. But this "house of god" nonsense, these rites and rituals are all witchcraft; which in itself is mostly primitive psychology and partly primitive science.
Your last post is rambling and a bit hard to understand. But surely you haven't missed the exclusivity of Yahweh in both testaments? Withcraft involves invoking Baal, Ashtoreth, Ra, etc. In the ancient cultures, it would also include divination from entrails and bodily secretions, human sacrifice, ritual cutting and shavings, etc. again all verifiably condemned in the scriptures. A prophet is someone who has messages from Yahweh of 1) encouragement 2) reproof or correction 3) future events that come true solidifying the prophet of the past as a Word of the One, true, living God. This whole forum with few individual exceptions shows almost zero knowledge of Judaism. There's very little of the Catholic and Satanic ritual nonsense in Judaism (other than the blood sacrifices that prefigure Jesus Christ). Are you so ignorant of non skeptical culture that you would ever confuse a Rabbi or Cantor with what a witch or witch doctor is? Really?!
No it does not. You've been watching too much TV. Tongue

And my story began with having a vision of genetic memory, where I was some kind of proto-human dying of freight before what I instinctually recognized as "the creator of the universe," which I named the LC. Years later, I came to the conclusion that what I saw a the LC is the same thing that the ancients saw as YHWH, only the LC ain't supernatural nor omni-anything. Even though its way bigger than alla that other stuff. Big Grin

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22-03-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Quote:No it does not. You've been watching too much TV.
And my story began with having a vision of genetic memory, where I was some kind of proto-human dying of freight before what I instinctually recognized as "the creator of the universe," which I named the LC. Years later, I came to the conclusion that what I saw a the LC is the same thing that the ancients saw as YHWH, only the LC ain't supernatural nor omni-anything. Even though its way bigger than alla that other stuff.
Um, so you're prone to seeing things? And you saw bigger miracles than the outrageous ones claimed in the Bible like stopping the sun's progress in the sky? Really?! You may be insane...
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22-03-2013, 11:40 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(22-03-2013 11:08 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No it does not. You've been watching too much TV.
And my story began with having a vision of genetic memory, where I was some kind of proto-human dying of freight before what I instinctually recognized as "the creator of the universe," which I named the LC. Years later, I came to the conclusion that what I saw a the LC is the same thing that the ancients saw as YHWH, only the LC ain't supernatural nor omni-anything. Even though its way bigger than alla that other stuff.
Um, so you're prone to seeing things? And you saw bigger miracles than the outrageous ones claimed in the Bible like stopping the sun's progress in the sky? Really?! You may be insane...
Government sponsored psychopath. Thumbsup

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23-03-2013, 01:53 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2013 08:20 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(22-03-2013 08:40 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Hi BB,
1. Where are you attending school again? I have two degrees already. Do you use STFU and other gracious terms in the classroom with your colleagues and professors?

No. I only use it with complete idiots. You in no way measure up to any of them. You could not get in where I go. Either place. As for all your sooth-saying goes, it's called "presentism".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_..._analysis) In your 3 above, "c" is false. See below. You cooked it up, and it's a common, street level misunderstabding of uneducated religionists, about what prophesy is, and as unual, provided NO reference, or supporting documentation. Presentism is an appied LATER cultural misunderstanding of an earlier cutural state or notion. You actually DID say there was an exception for the "word" as prophecy. Go look. And your entire religious system, since day one here is built on "fullfulled" fortune telling, as your proof/evidence that something is true. I realize it's of ULTIMATE importance to your childish, proof-needing, childish, fundie, literalist, non-philosophical understanding of religion, as simple-minded thing. The Oracle of Delphi was just as accurate as your fortune tellers, (prophets). It's all meaninless drivel. You have converted not one person, here, and never will. You have provided not one refernce, once, for any of your drivel or assertions, about anything. When and if you do, I might worry about responding to your fundamentalist shit. You demean, and devalue your own cause, with your childish Hollywood bullshit, and cultural inaccuracies. I won't be holding my breath. Your "messiah" has NOT restored the kingdom. The temple was NOT restored, and is/was lasting "forever" like it was supposed to, thus your CENTRAL main thesis is missing it's CENTRAL MAIN outcome, or point. It's just all biased, re-interpreted crap you NEED to bolster your weak faith. In fact the nation was destroyed for two thousand years, and temple is now a pagan shrine to the god Sin's (later development, which they were specifically told, time and again NOT to worship). When the nation WAS restored, it was by British politicians, and the UN, not a messiah figure. Mst Jews, except the apocalyptics WERE NOT, and ARE NOT waiting for a messiah. It's a SMALL subset, based now on a misunderstanding of "evil", which WAS NEVER a part of Hebrew culture, until Saul CHANGED it when he wanted to compete with the Greek mystery cults. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ic+origins

Speaking to/advising one's people about the possible consequences of their actions, or proposed course of action, (WHICH MAY BE DONE IN FUTURE TENSE, as many religious leaders do), and telling them it "may" have this or that outcome, is NOT prophesy, and it's the JOB of a prophet to talk to the PEOPLE OF THEIR OWN DAY about such things, such as Samuel, and Amos did, in opposing the establishment of a king. They told them they would eventually regret it. They did, and it was not accounted "prediction". It was advice to the people of their OWN day, about an outcome they would not necessarily forsee. It in no WAY equates to divination/fortune-telling, or "prediction" of anything. or seen a "validation of authority" because some fact or other ended up happening", as having proven or authenticating the "magical truth" or value of the author of the advice. It's advice FOR THAT DAY, and that time, about possible outcomes, OF THEIR BEHAVIOR AT THAT TIME. It's really very simple. ANd there is a world of difference here. The fact that you cannot, refuse, and have utterly failed to see that simple, easy, childish difference, speaks more than volumes about your childish simple-minded fundie/literalist mentality.

ANd BTW, you have yet to provide any evidence, or reference, for having counted the verbs in the Bible, and what tense is used, and even IF you did, it's meaningless. One can talk in the future tense 100% of the time, and NEVER "do" one prophesy, or prediction, or tell one fortune. Try harder, SPJJokeTroll.

You need a basic coiurse on Prophetic Literature, as seen in the OT.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9zLXRh...on&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=cEpCXRM...cy&f=false

Time for Spring break, and all sorts of, and as much evil licentious behavior as I can imagine, sustain, and cook up, JebusJokeTroll.
Wish me happy sinning, SexuallyPleasingJebusJokeTroll. Hopefully the likes of you will be all gone when I get back.
I plan on quite a few sins. At least one per hour, I hope. My list is growing. Tongue

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Political skeptic .. if there is a bad reason something bad might have happened, you can bet your ass, that's why it happened.
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23-03-2013, 02:28 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(21-03-2013 02:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Wrong again, SexuallyPleasingJebusTrollJoke. The fact is, to this day, I have never read even one Dan Brown book, nor have I ever climed he had Merovingain children, oh attemted deflecting one. Lying again, we see, oh presumptuous troll. Old Testatment "prophesy" describes NOTHING as has been pointed put to you, yet you continue to claim, just as all those who BEGAN to find secret meanings in Midrash, and soothsaying/divination was forbidden, and you have NEVER to this day provided any exception in Leviticus for "the word", oh forgetful old dishonest one. Even IF one granted you prophesy fallacy, they could not refer to Jebus, as he did not DO the one thing the messiah was supposed to do. The temple is still a shrine to a pagan god, and the KINGDOM of Isra-EL was restored by the British. Woops.
Classic delusion here--grandeur. My post wasn't addressed only to you. Do your colleagues on this forum realize how high you elevate yourself above them? Over 1/3 of the OT is prophecy, by the way. So I'll ask you again for the (5th?) time? Based on your scholarly theory, since only modern readers as smart as us could see the condemnation of future-telling in Leviticus (despite the fact that the Jews read the entire Torah annually or semi-annually as a congregation in synagogue), how is it that over 1/3 of the Old Testament is written in future tense? Drinking Beverage Drinking Beverage Drinking Beverage Drinking Beverage - up to 39 coffees, one for each OT book.
I've studied the life and times of Jeebus and the early Christians for 8 years, and written a book about it. When Bucky writes about the ancient Jews and the OT, I sit up and take notice, because he knows so much. It's not a matter of who knows more...it's all about learning. You're only feeling intimidated because you're intellectually outgunned. What's more, you don't know how much you don't know.
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23-03-2013, 05:51 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(23-03-2013 01:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Time for Spring break, and all sorts of, and as much evil licentious behavior as I can imagine, sustain, and cook up, JebusJoketTroll.

I am Commander Prophet and this is my favorite message on the Citadel. Thumbsup

(23-03-2013 02:28 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What's more, you don't know how much you don't know.

Hate it when that happens. Consider

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25-03-2013, 06:53 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Actually, BB knows an astonishingly small amount about the OT and NT equally. Typical college Atheist taking a few verses from the blind leading him through the darkness.

There are dimensions given in Ezekiel for a third, millennial temple whose dimensions are different than the first two. I understand the presentism concept but that is neither OT or NT accurate. Take Matthew 24, from memory, three questions are asked of Jesus by His discples:

"What will be the sign of your return?"

"When is the end of this age?"

"When will these things [destruction of the second Temple, etc.] happen?"

Look at some of the responses - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come - future event
Other future predictions that cannot have been said to have happened even before the close of the 3rd century CE, let alone in the "past" -

*For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again
the stars will fall from the sky,

and the heavenly bodies will be shaken
then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

So when you see standing in the holy place> ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a]'>[a]S)'> spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains - could not have been the Maccabean times/Antiochus Epiphanes, since this is accompanied by

For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again

Which is followed with If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the electW)'> those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.X)'> 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wondersY)'> to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

And the NEXT VERSE IS 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
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