Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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27-03-2013, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:06 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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27-03-2013, 06:54 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Thanks for the direction, Doc! Smile
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27-03-2013, 06:58 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:06 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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27-03-2013, 07:00 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Besides "Who Wrote the Bible", there is another by Schindewind called "How the Bible Became A Book". I like that one too.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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27-03-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(27-03-2013 06:31 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
I disagree with Smith and agree with Day that Asherah was worshiped and was seen as a consort to YHWH. Dever's book on that topic is very good.

--J.D.

Remembering reading alla claptrap about taking down the Asherah poles, and desisting from that kinda behavior; seems logical. YHWH getting all prissy about his ex is par for the character.

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28-03-2013, 06:39 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Thanks for the input, guys!

So, are the videos in post #135 talking about these things as well? I have issues with my eyes and a lot of text, so do better with either audio or visual.
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28-03-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Doctor,

It's rather simple, son. You have continued to ignore all my questions and citations of fact, and are arrogant to the point of altering my quotes to insert words and then boast about your lies and misdirection.

You haven't yet defended JDEP with any citations, merely made a few assertions about a few Hebrew terms. Your scholarship is slipshod, and you wouldn't last 20 minutes in a public, moderated debate with me or any other Christian worth their salt, because to date, your "arguments" consist of: "Epic fail, son." and fallacious appeals to authority.

I have some questions re: JDEP and Q and I'll post them in case others want to answer:

I spent some time on a hypothetical exercise this morning to ask myself, "Okay, JDEP and Q source are true. What questions arise or what problems are solved?" Once we have the how, are we able to speculate as to why?

If Jesus never existed or was a misunderstood actual figure, what would be the benefit of having several gospel authors in disparate time periods meet with a "source" to promote new religious scriptures? If there was no miraculous Jesus Christ, what would be the motivation for different writers, who wished to promulgate lies, to visit "Q"? And if there was no Jesus, how would people know to direct writers to visit with a "Q"? (Go see Q, he knows all about someone who never existed. Everyone knows him.) And wouldn't those writers deny that there was a Jesus and so ignore Q?

What would be the purpose, say, for a writer to invest a tremendous amount of time to produce "Chronicles" scrolls if there were already "Kings scrolls"? Was it really worth that effort to tell all the same stories from a slightly different angle, say focusing on the lives of the kings rather than God or vice versa?

If the purposes varied amongst the JDEP contributors, e.g. to soften or harshen the views about God from the former writers, why add on the scriptures? Why not delete them? Why change God's name and not retain the original or else redact the earlier texts to change the name in those texts? Wouldn't it reduce credibility not to take the above steps and more?

Why is it logical for the texts to have changed at all since the Masora or counters were the most rigorous copyists of documents by hand--of all time? (Counting words, letters, passages, and "chapters" and then burning scrolls if a single mistake was made in copying)

How do we know for certain there are four sources and not more or less? The Pharisees, Saducees, Herodians, Zealots, etc. were in constant disagreement on politics and theology, and banded together only to kill Jesus. But we're supposed to accept that four writers or "rabbinical schools" collaborated over time to change/redact/add to holy scripture?
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28-03-2013, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2013 08:43 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Quote:"Okay, JDEP and Q source are true. What questions arise or what problems are solved?"

You don't understand the role of the prophet.

You don't understand the role of faith in the form of Holy Spirit.

You don't understand the amount of non-verbal communication in real-life inter-personal relationships.

The prophet is a fucking nutbag. This is not an insult - it is just the way it is - and very, very few understand the prophet because he lives in a different world. Scripture came about from the priests (a group around the prophet) who endeavored to put into words the concepts communicated to them by the prophet - but they cannot so easily convey the ineffable Holy Spirit. So after they leave the presence of the prophet, they look at what has been written and encounter a dilemma:

To favor Spirit, the communication is gonna be whack - indecipherable to their intended audience.

To favor intended readership, the Spirit is lessened; and what results is more like philosophy and less like scripture.

So they do both, and each a little differently. But the editing begins at day one.

The big problem with nearly all Christians is binary thinking. It's gotta be true or false. It's gotta be right or wrong. And they continually deviate from god by "worshiping the devil" - look how many times that guy is blamed - and committing idolatry with scripture. Worshiping the Bible instead of god.

The finger is not the moon. The book is a door, not the room.

If you wanna practice scholarship, listen to Bucky and the Doc. If you wanna practice faith, listen to me and KC. But right now, you're doing both... and doing both wrong.

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28-03-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(28-03-2013 07:37 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But we're supposed to accept that four writers or "rabbinical schools" collaborated over time to change/redact/add to holy scripture?

It would be really good if you find out something about what you're pulling put of your ass before you keep making a fool of yourself. That is NOT what the Documentary Hypothesis says. I remind you yet again, oh forgetful one, in 1952, hundreds of conservative seminary professors, department heads and scripture scholars ALL signed off on the Interpreters Bible. You are SO far fucking to the right you are inside up your own ass.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-03-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
I find it mind boggling that you all spend so much effort on this picayune bullshit.

All holy texts are demonstrably products of the humans of the era. This is blindingly obvious to all but the blind.

What a fucking waste of time.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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