Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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08-03-2013, 09:42 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(08-03-2013 09:25 PM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 09:19 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  RE

"If the Bible was fabricated, it would not have lasted the test of time."

Oh no! back to kindergarten logic!

Is there some way we can have a simple IQ test that people need to pass before they post here? There would be a lot less "clutter."

"We know who the apostles were and we know they knew Jesus Christ and saw
him after his resurrection. They witnessed his miracles firsthand."

Somebody else nail this please. I'm gonna have some lunch.
Come on, you are better than this, right? You guys seem to want to insult Christians more than debate them. Is it like this in real life for you with people in everything you disagree with? What is it about Christianity that makes you so ill?
Ok...I'll type while I'm eating.

You may be a real nice person. If I met you I'd probably have a beer with you.

You've only been "nailed" because you're ignorant about scripture, (so is Billy Graham,) and you're obviously not interested in learning.

You're probably offended by that...and that's the root of the problem. If you demonstrate some open-mindedness, and maybe ask some sensible questions, you'll get some respect (despite your ignorance). Yet you're just spouting stuff you've heard in church or in Sunday school, and getting upset when you're laughed at.
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08-03-2013, 09:53 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(08-03-2013 09:42 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 09:25 PM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  Come on, you are better than this, right? You guys seem to want to insult Christians more than debate them. Is it like this in real life for you with people in everything you disagree with? What is it about Christianity that makes you so ill?
Ok...I'll type while I'm eating.

You may be a real nice person. If I met you I'd probably have a beer with you.

You've only been "nailed" because you're ignorant about scripture, (so is Billy Graham,) and you're obviously not interested in learning.

You're probably offended by that...and that's the root of the problem. If you demonstrate some open-mindedness, and maybe ask some sensible questions, you'll get some respect (despite your ignorance). Yet you're just spouting stuff you've heard in church or in Sunday school, and getting upset when you're laughed at.
I'm not upset. I do find it funny though that the crowd of so called open minded people resort to insinuations of stupidity when they are confronted with a believer. Knowledge of scripture to me and you likely mean different things. You are a critic, however I am a believer. I know what scripture actually says and means. You devote time to poke holes in religion. That's fine. I am here just to have a good time and debate. I am not really interested in the critique of blah blah blah, although I will give the believers take if I feel like it. My interests are more in philosophy. But anyway, lighten up you guys and try to have some fun. Goodnight.
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08-03-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
What a load of shit. You say you're here for debate, then you say you're not interested in our arguments. That's why we're calling you a shitty troll. Goodnight indeed.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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08-03-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
I believe Hebrew polytheism is referenced right there in the 10 commandments. "Thou shalt have no god before me...." etc

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
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09-03-2013, 12:06 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(08-03-2013 09:53 PM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 09:42 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ok...I'll type while I'm eating.

You may be a real nice person. If I met you I'd probably have a beer with you.

You've only been "nailed" because you're ignorant about scripture, (so is Billy Graham,) and you're obviously not interested in learning.

You're probably offended by that...and that's the root of the problem. If you demonstrate some open-mindedness, and maybe ask some sensible questions, you'll get some respect (despite your ignorance). Yet you're just spouting stuff you've heard in church or in Sunday school, and getting upset when you're laughed at.
I'm not upset. I do find it funny though that the crowd of so called open minded people resort to insinuations of stupidity when they are confronted with a believer. Knowledge of scripture to me and you likely mean different things. You are a critic, however I am a believer. I know what scripture actually says and means. You devote time to poke holes in religion. That's fine. I am here just to have a good time and debate. I am not really interested in the critique of blah blah blah, although I will give the believers take if I feel like it. My interests are more in philosophy. But anyway, lighten up you guys and try to have some fun. Goodnight.
You're probably not stupid, you're just ignorant about your religion. And you're so sure you're not, you've closed your mind off. Until you demonstrate some open-mindedness, you'll never be taken seriously (here). The ball is in your court.
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09-03-2013, 03:45 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 12:30 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(08-03-2013 09:19 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 05:51 PM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  Yes it was, pretty much.

If the Bible was fabricated, it would not have lasted the test of time. That is pure rubbish and speculation. We know who the apostles were and we know they knew Jesus Christ and saw him after his resurrection. They witnessed his miracles firsthand. He believed and quoted the OT. He spoke of Abraham, Moses, David, and Solomon.
RE

"If the Bible was fabricated, it would not have lasted the test of time."

Oh no! back to kindergarten logic!

Is there some way we can have a simple IQ test that people need to pass before they post here? There would be a lot less "clutter."

"We know who the apostles were and we know they knew Jesus Christ and saw
him after his resurrection. They witnessed his miracles firsthand."

Somebody else nail this please. I'm gonna have some lunch.

Alice in Wonderland has stood the test of time.
The Gilgamesh Epic has stood the test of time.
All the Greek myths have stood the test of time.
The Cat In The Hat has stood the test of time.
Nancy Drew has stood the test of time.
In fact the Bible has NOT "stood the test of time". In fact ever since people noticed that :
The Pentateuch had things in the wrong order, in many places,
that in one place there were two of something, later that there were fourteen of the same thing,
that in one place it said the Moabites did something, and later the Midianites had instead done it,
that it says Moses goes into the tabernacle before he built it,
that Moses calls himself the "humblest man on Earth", when in fact a humble man would never claim that,
that in one place Moses is talking from the wrong side of the river that he was supposed to never have crossed,
that in Genesis 36 Moses names Edomite kings who did not rule until long after Moses (supposedly) lived.
that the account of Moses' death has the same style, and vocabulary as the rest of the book, so obviously it was the same author,
that in at least two places, the text says "and to this day" as though the aurthor was actually writing long after the event,
that the listing of the kings of some of the neighboring states were in the wrong order,
that in Deuteronomy 34, it says, There never arose in Isra-El another prophet like Moses. Real humble, and how the hell would he know, if he was dead.
that the style and vocabulary of Deuteronomy was completely different from the other books, etc etc etc

This went on from at least the time of Origen, that "goofs" were being found, all the way through the Medieval period, and into the modern era.
To say it has "stood the test of time" is ignorance of history, and the development of Biblical scholarship.

The Graff-Wellhausen Documentary Hypothesis is accepted and taught at :
The Harvard Divinity School,
Yale Divinity School,
Princeton Theological Seminary,
Union Theological Seminary,
Hebrew Union College,
Tubingen University, (Germany),
The Sorbonne, (Paris),
Fordham University,
Catholic University,
Notre Dame University,
St. Thomas University,
St. Catherine University
Emory University,
North Carolina University, (Dr. Bart Ehrman's school),
Tulsa University, USC, UCLA,
and so many others one could not even BEGIN to list them.
etc etc etc.
Anyone questioning the Documantary Hypothesis at this point is either a fool, or just whistling in the wind.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-03-2013, 09:14 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2013 09:19 AM by DeavonReye.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Well, I guess I opened up a "can of worms" here. Glad I did, though. And the video in post #4 of this thread was the one I was referencing. I may have to pick up Karen Armstrong's book, . . . as well as the one from Richard Elliot Friedman. Being raised in the christian church [been an agnostic atheist now for about ~ 4 years], I could ONLY assume that what I was being taught was the true story. Why would I think otherwise? It was being taught to me by people who had gone to seminary and "believed it enough to make it their life career to do so".

I'm glad I found Evid3nc3s video because until that point, I had no idea of the scope of just how inaccurate my past beliefs really were. . . . . and how wrong my [still believing] family and friends actually are, and they don't even know it.
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10-03-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(09-03-2013 12:06 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 09:53 PM)mrbuddy4413 Wrote:  I'm not upset. I do find it funny though that the crowd of so called open minded people resort to insinuations of stupidity when they are confronted with a believer. Knowledge of scripture to me and you likely mean different things. You are a critic, however I am a believer. I know what scripture actually says and means. You devote time to poke holes in religion. That's fine. I am here just to have a good time and debate. I am not really interested in the critique of blah blah blah, although I will give the believers take if I feel like it. My interests are more in philosophy. But anyway, lighten up you guys and try to have some fun. Goodnight.
You're probably not stupid, you're just ignorant about your religion. And you're so sure you're not, you've closed your mind off. Until you demonstrate some open-mindedness, you'll never be taken seriously (here). The ball is in your court.
I am not looking for your approval or here to learn anything from you. I am here to enlighten.
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10-03-2013, 10:45 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
How can a person "enlighten" if they are promoting untrue information? I realize that you "believe that you believe that you believe" you are correct in your dogma/doctrine. It isn't the case here. . . and if YOU are not willing to let go of your indoctrinated beliefs, then you might as well go to a christain forum site where you all can "assure each other" without the pesky facts getting in the way.
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10-03-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(10-03-2013 10:45 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  How can a person "enlighten" if they are promoting untrue information? I realize that you "believe that you believe that you believe" you are correct in your dogma/doctrine. It isn't the case here. . . and if YOU are not willing to let go of your indoctrinated beliefs, then you might as well go to a christain forum site where you all can "assure each other" without the pesky facts getting in the way.
Here is a fact. Seek and ye shall find. You must seek God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Get on your hands and knees and pray for a sign. It will be given to you.
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