Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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28-03-2013, 03:40 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:05 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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28-03-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(28-03-2013 03:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I think I also will put SPJTJ on ignore.
I leave you with this. If you don't accept the Documentary Hypothesis, then have fun explaining :

1.Why humans are created twice (Gen. 1:27, 2:7f).
2.Why Noah is commanded to take two of every animal (Gen 6:17) and then seven of every clean and two of every unclean (Gen 7:2).
3.Why the breaks between the two creation accounts and the two flood accounts also divide perfectly into the two similar similar language sets and vocabulary that is used in the creation and flood accounts.
4.Why in one text (Num 12:4-15) the tent of meeting is outside the camp, and anyone can go to it, and in an earlier one (Num 2), it is in the center of the camp, and only the priests can enter it. And why these two texts preserve similar language and textual allusions to other similarly divided texts.
5.Why in the flood account it is proclaimed that God limits man’s days to 120 years, but in Genesis 47:9 Jacob says he lived 130 years and Abraham and Isaac lived even longer.
6.Why Hagar is banished twice (Gen 16 & 21)
7.Why Jacob is named twice (Gen 32 & 35)
8.Why Beersheva is given two different etymologies (Gen 21 & 26).
9.Why Abraham is born in Ur Kasdim (Gen 11:27-32), i.e., in southern Iraq, then moves to Haran, i.e. North Syria, and while in Haran (apparently) God tells him to leave his birthplace to go to Canaan (Gen 12:1ff.), but of course he’d already left his birthplace—in Ur!
10.Why Jacob finished a long discourse about why Ephraim and Manasseh will be adopted as Jacob’s sons, and then in the next verse doesn’t know who they are (Gen 48:3-7, 8), and why if you remove that talk, the text makes perfect sense. Why that discourse matches with language of other similar discourses that are divided by similar literary seams.
11.Why in one text (Gen 35:23-26, (=P)) Benjamin is born in Paddan Aram, but in another (35:16-19 (=E)) he is born near Bethlehem, in Canaan.
12.Why in one text (Gen 37:36) the Midianites sell Joseph to Potiphar, but in another (Gen 39:1) it was the Ishmaelites.
13.Why, in Genesis 37:21-22 it’s Reuben who wants to save Joseph, and in 26-27 it was Judah.
14.Why Moses’ father-in-law has two names (Reuel/Jethro), and Sinai has two names (Sinai/Horeb), and why the use of each of these names corresponds to other linguistic, thematic, and narrative distinctions and traditions.
15.Why Abraham tries to pass his wife off as his sister in two similar instances (albeit with important distinctions that would indicate different sources) and then Isaac does the same thing. (Genesis 12, 20, 26).
16.Why the name of God is revealed as if for the first time in Genesis 3, then again in Genesis 6, and why in these distinct texts there are linguistic similarities that track back to other texts distinguished by the SAME linguistic and literary divisions, and why in those divisions the one that hasn’t used the tetragrammaton up to this point then begins to use it, but in the others it had been used all along.
17.Why God’s hardening of Pharaoh’s heart so that he chases the Israelites (Exod 14:8-9) follows Pharaoh’s decision to chase the Israelites (14:5-7).
18.An angel moves to the rear of the fleeing Israelite camp (Exod 14:19a) but in the same verse it was not the angel but the cloud pillar (Exod 14:19b).
19.Why it seems that God blew the sea back, drying the ground, in one text, and in the next split the waters through which the Israelites walk. (Exod 14:21a, compare 14:21b-22). And if this seems scant, why in Exodus 15, which recounts the mighty acts of the deliverance, there is no splitting of the sea.
20.Why linguistic formulae that are never supposed to be interrupted (the command-fulfillment pattern in the Pentateuch) are interrupted around source divisions or insertions of other material.
21.Why Exodus 34 can be separated into two narratives, one about God appearing to Moses and making a covenant, and the other about Moses going up the mountain to receive the second set of tablets with the same writing on them. And why these two episodes preserve the language and terminology of J and E, respectively, and why when these two episodes are separated their narratives match up perfectly with where the other separated J and E narratives left off and where they continue. And why Deuteronomy 10 quotes only one of these tightly integrated stories.
22.Why God is "immanent" in some texts and "transcendent" in others (compare the Tent of meeting, where he is transcendent, to the Tabernacle, where he is immanent).
23.Why in some texts the ark is just a plain wooden box with two tablets in it, and in others it’s an ornately-decorated chest containing several relics.
24.Why we have the Decalogue and Covenant Code, (=the set of laws beginning in Exodus 20), and the Deuteronomic Code (Deut 5; 12-26, which is supposed to be a repeat of the Covenant Code, but it’s not; it introduces many, many changes. Compare, for example, the Sabbath laws in Exod 20 and Deut 5).
25.Why in Exodus 12 we have pesach (passover) celebrated followed immediately by the seven-day matzah festival, but in Deuteronomy 16:1-8 there is only a seven-day festival (pesach and matzah have been conflated), with no specific date assigned in Deuteronomy. Also, why Deuteronomy requires the paschal lamb to be slaughtered at the central shrine but in Exodus it’s done in a family setting.
26.Why in some texts Moses’ staff is used to perform miracles, and in others it’s Aaron’s. (And why in these different cases there is other linguistic and narrative evidence pointing toward source divisions.)
27.Why the differentiated texts exhibit particularized geographical foci. Why, for example, do the spies in Num 17-20, 22-24 only see sites in the kingdom of Judah? (These happen to correlate with other J texts, whose focus is clearly on Judah). Abraham, in J, lives in Hebron, a capital in Judah. There are only four birth stories in J: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, and in J the first three are disinherited, leaving Judah to rule. These trends can be extended to the other sources.
28.Why all of these discrepancies are differentiated along linguistic, terminological, and substantial lines. That is the doubled stories will show different names for god, treatments of the priesthood, use of individual words (where such words are excluded from the other sources), sacred objects, etc. And, why the separation of these differentiated texts and rejoining to texts seemingly hewn from the same quarry results most often in a continuous narrative. Were one to spell out these individual differentiations, they’d number in the thousands.

So, you get to propose a replcement theory, SPJTJ. AFTER you do that, and explain every one of the 28 lines of EVIDENCE above, have someone let me know.

I know there is as much chance of that happening as there is of the Easter Bunny stopping at my house.



You just don't understand. It'a a metaphor.Drinking Beverage

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29-03-2013, 09:03 AM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2013 09:08 AM by PleaseJesus.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Why not? (Why?) I'll do this all from memory, and not lookup any citations online. Mind, all we need are logical possibilities as to how off the reservation "scholars" get:

1. Why humans are created twice (Gen. 1:27, 2:7f).

Gen 1 and 2 are disparate narratives, certainly. One describes an over-flight view of creation, one focuses on Man. The same "two telling" methodology is in the culture and is used in Revelation, Kings and Chronicles, and hundreds of couplets within Proverbs. Jesus Himself spoke people's names twice for emphasis. Almost every born again Christian and Jewish Rabbi I know realizes what an empty, Gentile-infused (no understanding of the culture) and shallow "argument" this is. I'm tired of seeing it online.

2. Why Noah is commanded to take two of every animal (Gen 6:17) and then seven of every clean and two of every unclean (Gen 7:2).

"You will have two of every animal and also, extras for clean sacrifices..." And? The writer didn't say "at least two" the first time? Why? It would be an awkward construction since it was not at least two but exactly two of most kinds...

3. Why the breaks between the two creation accounts and the two flood accounts also divide perfectly into the two similar similar language sets and vocabulary sets that are used in the creation and flood accounts, and correspond perfectly, consistently, with no major or noteable exception

Did you know you wrote similar twice? LOL. Are you utterly unaware of how much precision and hidden, encoded methodology is used in the scriptures? Are you that dense (or spiritually blind)? Look at Psalm 119 and the other acrostic Psalms. I’m supposed to be put off because Yahweh is used consistently in one passage and El/Elohim in others? Really?! Have you never attended synagogue or a church service where call and response is used in worship? It’s all precise… And? That might only prove people with OCD wrote the Bible but not parsing more authors than are required?

4 .Why in one text (Num 12:4-15) the tent of meeting is outside the camp, and anyone can go to it, and in an earlier one (Num 2), it is in the center of the camp, and only the priests can enter it. And why these two texts preserve similar language and textual allusions to other the same similarly divided texts.

Anyone could go to near the entrance to discuss their needs, just as Gentiles could go to the outer court of the Temple(s), and David longed to be a “doorkeeper” at the house of the Lord. But only the priests could go into the holy place within, totally consistent with the later Temple(s).

5. Why in the flood account it is proclaimed that the god limits man’s days to 120 years, but in Genesis 47:9 Jacob says he lived 130 years and Abraham and Isaac lived even longer.

Uh-huh. Did you make this one up? You did read the whole verse? “My spirit will not strive with man more than 120 years or this “long-lived” generation is an excellent rendering.” Noah’s family had 120 years to build a gigantic ship. I’d have a REAL problem if they only had, say, five years to do it.

6. Why Hagar is banished twice (Gen 16 & 21)

Because she came back once.

7. Why Jacob is named twice (Gen 32 & 35)

Jacob was named Israel at Penuel but seemed to have not used his name when speaking to others until later. But even God calls him both Israel and Jacob in the prophets. Jacob – trickster when Israel misbehaves, Israel – prince of God when Israel is being blessed.

8. Why Beersheva is given two different lines/etymologies (Gen 21 & 26).

Tough trivia from my memory? …I’d guess off hand, the same reason we argue about Jesus’s geneaology elsewhere, once there was a step-marriage or “adoption” you had both lines of titular rights passed to you.

9. Why Abraham is born in Ur Kasdim (Gen 11:27-32), i.e., in southern Iraq, then moves to Haran, i.e. North Syria, and while in Haran the god tells him to leave his birthplace to go to Canaan (Gen 12:1ff.), but of course he’d already left his birthplace—in Ur! Woops.

Wasn’t he also told to leave his family? Are you sure the best translation is birthplace and not “birth folk?”

10. Why Jacob finished a long discourse about why Ephraim and Manasseh will be adopted as Jacob’s sons, and then in the NEXT verse doesn’t know who they are (Gen 48:3-7, 8), and why if you remove that talk, the text makes perfect sense. Why that discourse matches with language of other similar discourses that are divided by similar literary seams.

Was this at the same time when his son and their father Joseph told his near-blind father he’d placed his hands on the wrong heads, blessing the younger and not the older? Is that what you mean? That he was near blind at the time? PS. Crossing the hands where the young people were arrayed as described means Jacob made the sign of the cross over them.

11. Why in one text (Gen 35:23-26, (=P)) Benjamin is born in Paddan Aram, but in another (35:16-19 (=E)) he is born near Bethlehem, in Canaan.

Don’t remember the distance on the map, but I do know elsewhere in the Bible labor pains are accounted for in the birth process as a totality. I know my wife counts them for our kids! Rachel clearly had a horrific labor and died. I’m sure you remember, since you clearly care about ALL the details of ALL the scripture.

12. Why in one text (Gen 37:36) the Midianites sell Joseph to Potiphar, but in another (Gen 39:1) it was the Ishmaelites.

Please tell me you know, as does every other scholar, that the Midianites were accounted as Ishmaelites in many places. Lucky for you I was reading Judges 12-15 this week where the same “error” is made. Jews TODAY still call most Arabs of the region “children of Ishmael” regardless of their true background.

13. Why, in Genesis 37:21-22 it’s Reuben who wants to save Joseph, and in 26-27 it was Judah.

The firstborn made a protestation, and so did noble Judah, who is in the Messianic line more directly. Judah stood more clearly for Joseph later, in Egypt. Remember? Of course not, because for some “ungodly” reason you only seek problems in the Bible and never solutions. Confirmatory bias?

14. Why Moses’ father-in-law has two names (Reuel/Jethro), and Sinai has two names (Sinai/Horeb), and why the use of each of these names corresponds to other linguistic, thematic, and narrative distinctions and traditions.

Really? You know who else/where else has multiple names in scripture? The mount DIRECTLY magnetic North of Jebel El Musa/the true Sinai, Mt. Zion/the Temple mount/where God provides/the rest for the ark, along with Abraham/Abram, Jacob/Israel, Sarai/Sarah, Shimhon Kefa/Peter/Petra, John and James/the sons of thunder, Solomon/Jedidiah, Jeconias/Jeconiah, etc, etc, etc. The INTERPRETATIVE difference is, where Hebrew scholars see consistency of language/vocab attached to the names called out, GREAT consistency, that makes it easy to believe that the author(s) were scrupulous and careful and not conspiratorial. If YOU were condensing disparate texts, wouldn’t YOU cover your tracks better? Really?

15. Why Abraham tries to pass his wife off as his sister in two similar instances (albeit with important distinctions that would indicate different sources) and then Isaac does the same thing. (Genesis 12, 20, 26).

The commonality in Abram’s case was God had greatly blessed him immediately before. The Bible is honest about Abram’s doubts and weakness. Also, there are disparate details in the accounts. From memory, Pharaoh and Abimelech receive different communications from God, confront Abraham slightly differently and resolve the situation a bit differently. Issac would know of his father’s goof and used the same lie. What you failed to miss with your keen observations? The magnificent beauty of the lies and threads and “karma” of scripture. E.g. when Jacob deceived his dad he used animal skins and claimed falsely he’d just slaughtered game. When Jacob got his ironic recompense his sons used the same ruse to tell him falsely Joseph had just been slaughtered by animals. There are many such examples of “two tellings” but you only see the literary face come under fire and not the magnificent storytelling ironies and type and shadow of the text. Of course, Jesus was a lamb, slaughtered like game and like a slaughtered lamb in appearance on the cross… thanks for bringing this issue forward.

16. Why the name of God is revealed as if for the first time in Genesis 3, then again in Genesis 6, and why in these distinct texts there are linguistic similarities that track back to other texts distinguished by the SAME linguistic and literary divisions, and why in those divisions the one that hasn’t used the tetragrammaton up to this point then begins to use it, but in the others it had been used all along.

I’m having trouble following this line of thought from you. The tetragrammaton is used in early Genesis but that’s a problem because it’s used in books commonly thought to have been written later? Or is it why the Bible would record that God may have revealed his name to Adam’s immediates and then later, to Noah, who is called by God to
serve in Genesis 6?

17. Why God’s hardening of Pharaoh’s heart so that he chases the Israelites (Exod 14:8-9) follows Pharaoh’s decision to chase the Israelites (14:5-7).

1. I read this as “testing” and not “hardening” the heart in a Calvinist sense. Regardless, that doesn’t answer the question, but what does is how God tested Pharoah’s heart multiple times, and even foretold to Moses what Pharaoh would do after being tested multiple times, the same ten times the Israelites tested God in the wilderness, right? Um, oops, I forgot. You categorically deny God could have told Moses, the greatest PROPHET, what he’d do including multiple tests of Pharoah, in ADVANCE. 2. More directly, from memory, following the decision to chase, there was a huge “fire tornado” blocking their way, after which, almost stupefy-ingly (stupefy? I feel Harry Potter coming on) the Egyptians KEEP after the Jews. Thanks to you, when Christians ask why they did this, I’ll remind them YOU told me God gave Pharaoh a little extra push as you wrote.

18. An angel moves to the rear of the fleeing Israelite camp (Exod 14:19a) but in the same verse it was not the angel but the cloud pillar (Exod 14:19b).

Will you allow me a brief OMG here? The angel of the Lord, Jesus Christ, was in the cloud pillar—he met with Moses and the SIGN it was a meeting with Christ was the cloud pillar for the next 40 years. You win the “dumbest Bible contradiction of the month” award for this one. PS. The Temple is like a human body and the holy of holies, like the mind of the Temple person. Jesus is the logos. You should go here, it’s FABULOUS to see this as illustrations:

http://www.templesecrets.info/

19.Why it seems that God blew the sea back, drying the ground, in one text, and in the next split the waters through which the Israelites walk. (Exod 14:21a, compare 14:21b-22). And if this seems scant, why in Exodus 15, which recounts the mighty acts of the deliverance, there is no splitting of the sea.

Oh, it seems scant. LOL. The Talmud can be read for a collaborative witness by the way. The sea is split into two and the Talmud says it was wide enough for seven to walk abreast, although I think that’s not good enough when you’re moving 2,000,000 people. LOL. The ground was dry, there was a wall of water. And of course, the “wind” was the Pneuma, the Ruach Ha Kodesh, the Spirit of God. You think mere cyclonic wind can hold back a sea while people walk through it? If so, you’re a dolt. However, I know you’re not but are learning in this very thread what the Jews have known for millennia, that there are four levels to read scripture on. Only one being plain face text, where mostly Gentile skeptics choke. Remember that the magicians of Pharaoh could duplicate the first miracles of Moses but later said, “This is the finger of God.” When Jews read in synagogue (usually) a hand/finger pointer represents the Holy Spirit.

20.Why linguistic formulae that are never supposed to be interrupted (the command-fulfillment pattern in the Pentateuch) are interrupted around source divisions or insertions of other material.

Hard to do from memory, but I would ask your source as to how you know the formulae is unbreakable. Jewish tradition? Another Bible verse? I’ve never heard this objection before but it does sound like BS. Sorry.

21.Why Exodus 34 can be separated into two narratives, one about God appearing to Moses and making a covenant, and the other about Moses going up the mountain to receive the second set of tablets with the same writing on them. And why these two episodes preserve the language and terminology of J and E, respectively, and why when these two episodes are separated their narratives match up perfectly with where the other separated J and E narratives left off and where they continue. And why Deuteronomy 10 quotes only one of these tightly integrated stories.

Um, you do know that one set of tablets was shattered at the mountain’s foot, right? And you do know that one set Moses carved and one set God carved, right? And, more to the point for JDEP, if there is a tri-unity of God with distinct names and personalities, for all we know J is Father and E is Jesus and so on and so forth, right? As for Deuteronomy only bothering to quote J and not E or vice versa, that’s one you’ll have to ask God when you see Him! Ludicrous contradiction. Why did Billy once have oral sex and then intercourse with three women and then told his friends only, “I got laid last night with three chicks!” I mean, the objection is rather retarded, don’t you think?
THINK.

22.Why God is "immanent" in some texts and "transcendent" in others (compare the Tent of meeting, where he is transcendent, to the Tabernacle, where he is immanent).

Why do Christians find God imminent in daily life and Atheists so transcendent he’s bloody invisible? LOL. This sort of thing, God comes and goes, like wind, rain and snow, is not a “contradiction” in any other religion, you know that, right? Jesus Himself said the Kingdom of God is within you… but where I am going (in body) you cannot follow.”

23.Why in some texts the ark is just a plain wooden box with two tablets in it, and in others it’s an ornately-decorated chest containing several relics.

Uh-huh. I don’t recall reading that it was a “plain wooden box” in any translation. But if it started out that way, Bezalel and company had a lot to do and may have decorated it later. I’d like to hear more about this “Bible difficulty” if you get time.

24.Why we have the Decalogue and Covenant Code, (=the set of laws beginning in Exodus 20), and the Deuteronomic Code (Deut 5; 12-26, which is supposed to be a repeat of the Covenant Code, but it’s not; it introduces many, many changes. Compare, for example, the Sabbath laws in Exod 20 and Deut 5).

Really? 20 passes through the Torah and I’d never noticed that before. LOL. You didn’t think Deut comes from the time of Josiah and later writers or is it just you? But seriously, folks, you’ve cited one of (200?) examples in the Bible (300?) where a law, statute, proverb, happening or story is repeated and given different and tantalizing details to add. I mean, there are four gospels, right? I would have a harder time believing in one than in four with disparate details and the writer’s personal slant.

25.Why in Exodus 12 we have pesach (passover) celebrated followed immediately by the seven-day matzah festival, but in Deuteronomy 16:1-8 there is only a seven-day festival (pesach and matzah have been conflated), with no specific date assigned in Deuteronomy. Also, why Deuteronomy requires the paschal lamb to be slaughtered at the central shrine but in Exodus it’s done in a family setting.

There’s a lamb at the Tabernacle/Temple and in homes with family. The High Priest has to work on the Jewish holidays! LOL. It’s not the only conflated festival in the Bible, by the way. You know some Jews today argue how long Purim is, right? And with good reason. Or Christians argue whether Pentecost was 49 or 50 days later and etc. What do you eat at Pesach, BB? Baked goods from the supermarket? Matzo. There are details about the Pesach festival in one account that are skipped in another. If all Bible doubled accounts had the exact same text, that would be… weird.

26.Why in some texts Moses’ staff is used to perform miracles, and in others it’s Aaron’s. (And why in these different cases there is other linguistic and narrative evidence pointing toward source divisions.)

You do know Aaron was Moses’s mouthpiece and spoke for him also, right? You do know that almost NO miracle is done without a staff or similar object held aloft to form a type and shadow of the cross? Moses prophesied and so did 70 elders, and so did people in the camp. How is that a contradiction? You might as well ask, why isn’t that a contradiction, too? PS. You DO know native Hebrew speakers know all these “issues” and are still devout Jews and/or Christians, right? The greatest intellectual tradition on Earth is Jewish. Why do you assume these Theists are all retarded, blinded sheep also?

27.Why the differentiated texts exhibit particularized geographical foci. Why, for example, do the spies in Num 17-20, 22-24 only see sites in the kingdom of Judah? (These happen to correlate with other J texts, whose focus is clearly on Judah). Abraham, in J, lives in Hebron, a capital in Judah. There are only four birth stories in J: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, and in J the first three are disinherited, leaving Judah to rule. These trends can be extended to the other sources.

Yes, I understand. News flash: I believe the Bible is filled with Messianic type and shadow, as it states in Revelation 19 as well. You know Judah is where the Garden of
Eden was held to be, and where/from whom came the Christ, right? I’d be freaked out if the “loci” focused on Dan instead.

28.Why all of these discrepancies are differentiated along linguistic, terminological, and substantial lines. That is the doubled stories will show different names for god, treatments of the priesthood, use of individual words (where such words are excluded from the other sources), sacred objects, etc. And, why the separation of these differentiated texts and rejoining to texts seemingly hewn from the same quarry results most often in a continuous narrative. Were one to spell out these individual differentiations, they’d number in the thousands.

I know. Which makes the Bible “redactors” the dumbest idiots in history for not covering their tracks and for being so OCD-consistent in not doing so. And EXCEPTIONALLY CONSISTENT “human” writers overall.

http://www.palmoni.net/gematria.htm

Whereas the Christian who believes in a triune God sees multiple voices playing the same theme.

And, you do know the earliest JDEP thoughts stemmed from German higher criticism that couldn’t figure why the OT God was so savage and the NT God, so meek and mild. Look where that went. Sorry, Hitler had to get into this thread eventually.

I’ve got to thank you, BB. My faith today has been utterly shaken. No wait, I meant strengthened. Thanks, you are a true friend!
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29-03-2013, 09:48 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(29-03-2013 09:03 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  bla bla bla

LOL. Fail utterly, you stupid fudie troll. No one said anything about "faith" As I said 130+ conservative seminary professors and dept head signed off on it in 1952. Deflection attempted. Fail.
1. Name calling, no reply. What Jebus is said to have done or not done is irrelevant. This is about the OT. The contradictions and differences and literary proofs were not addressed. We're tired of seeing YOU online.
2. Irrelevant. No answer even attempted.
3. Irrelevant deflection attempt. Point not even attempted to be addressed. Examples are not the texts in question.
4. No. They are specifically different. Rationalization attempt very lame.
5. Irrelevant deflection attempt. Point not addressed.
6. Nowhere does it say she returned. Liar. You just made it up.
7. Lame. Text is clearly talking about father in one, son in another. LOL.
8. LOL
9. LOCATION was the point. Attempt not even made.
10. Irrelevant. Deflection attempt.
11. No answer even attempted.
12. Will check. No reason for change accounted for.
13. There was no "messianic" line at that point. Utter crap.
14. Oh NOW he's talking about "consistency" of vocab and literary criticism, yet utterly dismisses it in other places ?? LOL
15. LOL. This is not about your Jebus.
16. You obviously don't even get this one.
17. Point not addressed. Irrelevant.
18 This is not about Jebus. Irrelevant. Deflection.
19. This is not about the Talmud.
20. Point not even attempted. Saying it's BS is no answer, as you have proven you are utterly ignorant of the basics of scripture scholarship.
21. There were no "tewo set". The entire thing was fiction made up by the priests. Again beringing Jebus into it just shows your fundie ignorance. 22. Irrelevant. Point not addressed.
22. Point not addressed.
23. Irrelevant.
24,. No answer.
25. Utter ignorance of the culture. LOL
26. Rationization. Point not addressed.
27. Irrelevant. You are no scholar.
28 Irrelevant.

That's the first time anyone ever has said the Documentary Hypothesis led to Hitler. Now THAT is the best laugh of the year. You will be nominated for a TTA award for that giant piece of dung. What a fool.

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Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study.
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29-03-2013, 09:52 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:05 PM by Doctor X.)
Tongue RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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29-03-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Quote:1. Why humans are created twice (Gen. 1:27, 2:7f).

Gen 1 and 2 are disparate narratives, certainly..

Which means, more that one narrator. One does not err with keystone philosophy. The substance of man is pretty damn critical to creation myth. Since your journey of a thousand miles begins with a first step off into the void...

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29-03-2013, 10:06 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:05 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
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29-03-2013, 11:53 AM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
BB, "irrelevant" and "duck" are not proper responses in a debate. Nor is "there are 13 volumes you should read"... that you haven't read yourself, ever. LOL.

Would you use this style of tactic in a live debate? "I have nothing to tell you today, go read this book," and "irrelevant!" You're a regular Chris Hitchens, when can I see you on television?

I made a sincere and protracted effort, writing for an hour or so to reply to the 28 points you downloaded from the 'Net. You need not respond to all of them in detail but it would be nice if you took three or four and avoided the Chas "one liners" and Doctor X "screw you, I'm right" avoidance techniques.

Thank you. Please try again to debate some of the points with philosophy, facts, research or something substantive--so I don't just wind up distributing the two prior posts to everyone I know as Defense Against the Dark Arts at Hogwarth's... I mean JDEP.
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29-03-2013, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2013 03:02 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
(29-03-2013 11:53 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  BB, "irrelevant" and "duck" are not proper responses in a debate. Nor is "there are 13 volumes you should read"... that you haven't read yourself, ever. LOL.

Would you use this style of tactic in a live debate? "I have nothing to tell you today, go read this book," and "irrelevant!" You're a regular Chris Hitchens, when can I see you on television?

I made a sincere and protracted effort, writing for an hour or so to reply to the 28 points you downloaded from the 'Net. You need not respond to all of them in detail but it would be nice if you took three or four and avoided the Chas "one liners" and Doctor X "screw you, I'm right" avoidance techniques.

Thank you. Please try again to debate some of the points with philosophy, facts, research or something substantive--so I don't just wind up distributing the two prior posts to everyone I know as Defense Against the Dark Arts at Hogwarth's... I mean JDEP.

I gave you 28 points. All you could do is return irrelavant bullshit. You are dismissed. Troll. If there are points brought up, you deflect and bring in Jebus crap. You are worthless, and not up to this task. Buh Bye.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study.
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29-03-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: Question about the "J", "E", "P", "R", "D", and the "changed Old Testament".
Quote:I gave you 28 points. All you could do is return irrelavant bullshit. You are dismissed. Troll. If there rae poimt brought up, you deflect and bring in Jebus crap. You are worthless, and not up to this tasl. Buh Bye.
I think I follow, BB. If I raise two dozen questions, you call them irrelevant and dismiss them. If you raise two dozen question and I respond to all of them, you dismiss my answers. Nice playing with you. Have a good weekend.
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